"bad news from Afghanistan ...." Topic

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Looks like seal team six … very sad news :-(

A sad loss. My thoughts with the American and Afghan families affected.

Dave is just looking for attention.

This is truly a sad day and my thoughts are with their families. We lost truly brave men today, of which we will never know anything about other than that they were heroes.

>>>Dave is just looking for attention.

Yikes.
I just noticed the 156 stifles. If that's not prima facia evidence of a pattern of troll behavior, I don't know what is.
Advice taken.

Martin

Very sad news indeed.

– self-imposed editing with regards to a previous posting.

Nothing shows the worst side of humanity than to use a situation such as this to get on your soapbox.

My prayers to the families of these brave men.

Ladies and Gentlemen – thanks to some posts we are well into Blue Fez Territory. Forgive me for adding to that trend but some of the ignorance here is beyond the pale and requires a response. I'm probably going to get my first stifle for this – and if it happens I'll wear it with pride – so please forgive my first TMP rant but……the smug, soap box gloating over the death of valiant service-members marks a closed, overly self-righteous mind. He has the right to speak his opinions as that's one of the things they died for. Even if he may not be appreciative, knowledgeable of or worthy of their sacrifice. Nor do I expect these words to have an effect on his views as after all, his intellect and morals are so much more….. 'superior'…. to mine.

Allen – you make a much more reasonable arguement but one that is also slightly off base – the invasion of Afghanistan took place because of what the Taliban leadership did – namely protecting UBL and crowd. They were given the opportunity to give them up and had they done so they would have been left alone. Regardless of whether they were the 'recognized' government or not – they had defacto sovereignty over much of the country and with rights come responsibilities. I can respect Mullah Omar's decision as it fit within the norms of Afghan culture. However, he knew that he was choosing war when he did so. Now if you were referring to Iraq then I think you're off a few thousand miles on this incident….

As for another, it's not worth the time to attempt to explain Rules of Engagement on a predictably hostile target. UBL wanted war, he waged war, and he got war in return – enough said. Hopefully he hasn't given the fish indigestion. After all, I wouldn't want to be guilty of cruelty to piscines.

As for changing tactics, it happens – the enemy gets a vote and we suffer these losses when restraint gets used in order to provide precise effects versus the uses of more traditional munitions that could have dealt with the target. Believe me, there are ways to take down a target like this without even having to fly in the guys – we don't use them because we're excercising restraint. Had we used the the other methods I am sure the would be screaming about different forms of war crimes.

God Bless those who died dealing with the goblins of the world. God be with their families in this time of loss.

@Dave Hollins…on behalf of the famlies of the Seal team members, the Air Force Combat Air controllers family members, the Dog Controller's famly members, his dog, the helicopter crews' family members, and the Afghan commando's family members…

you sir.

Well said sir!

^Worded perfectly Uesugi Kenshin. Dave, you are . RIP to those who died, my condolences to the families. An irreplaceable loss in terms of experience and effectiveness.

Thanks to Mr. Kenshin for summing up my feelings in such a cogent fashion.
Pat

I can't believe radical Islam just scored a propaganda victory like this. It's a serious blow, especially considering that it came in the wake of the recent victory for the good guys when they finally killed bin Laden.

It may have been a lucky RPG hit, but when are they going to realize that Chinooks are the new Blackhawks? We need more stealth choppers to deploy these valuable assets. SEALS cannot be thrown away like this. Man, talk about all your eggs in one basket. Unbelievable!

So Mr Hollins thinks that military service personnel deserve what they get if they sign up – as if the sadly deceased had any influence over US foreign policy in the first place.

It is disgusting to suggest that brave and dedicated people somehow bought this on themselves. It's perfectly possible to disagree with the political direction that a nation takes whilst wholeheartedly supporting the troops. After all, it might just be your backyard they fight in one day, and then you'll be glad of them.

And why you take the opportunity to lecture the yanks on fiscal policy is beyond me – unless you just like sticking it to them. How does that belong on this board?

Back on topic, I wonder how many times we don't hear about near-misses. Chuck enough RPG's into the sky and eventually you'll hit something. I sadly suspect something like this was bound to happen eventually.

Uesugi Kenshin, I couldn't agree with you more….

Thanks!

Hollins… go put on a uniform and see if you can do better. I got a dollar that says you can't.

ObL was an animal- a rabid dog if you will. And in my neck of the woods, such things get shot.
---

RIP to my brother sailors and soldiers.

Hollins… go put on a uniform and see if you can do better. I got a dollar that says you can't.

Hollins will get around to informing you that he was a Royal Naval Reserve officer for a number of years. I used to taunt him that he was really the cook or the purser, which at the time got me a whole wad of stifles. I can only add that IIRC he was on a minesweeper and my mother saw more combat than he is likely to have done.

I can only sincerely apologise that he comes from my country and can assure you that while many here are pretty drippy these days there is still a sizeable portion of us that value what these guys are doing. It's a truly sad loss.

Old Bear,

Thank you – no need to apologize for your country – I've had the pleasure and honor of working with your forces in the past. I know that Hollins in no way represents what they, and you, stand for. All he did was bring discredit upon himself, nothing more.

A sad loss,prayers and condolensces to the surviving family members.

I've read that's it's unlikely to be the same men that took bin laden down.

Still very sad. RIP all those who fell.

Indeed, a sad loss of so many lives, both american and afghan.

But it's another example of stupid leadership. Chinooks aren't designed to fly into hot zones. And you can't afford the public relations hit that something like this causes.

Condolences to the families. This is a real tragedy and regardless of one's political views, this is not the time or place to air insensitive comments. Very bad show.

It may have been a lucky RPG hit…

I keep hearing that too, but I wonder if it was really an RPG or something like an SA-7. Reporters sometimes have trouble distinguishing different pieces of hardware.

Things i would like to say about Dave's attitude might be taken as an offense to all British readers. Since i have many friends in the United Kingdom, I will refrain from commenting on Dave's uneducated point of view.

Our economy?? take a look at your own! and the rest of Europe. Bin Laden had nothing to do with them or ours.

We are not having riots (yet) in the middle of our cities like you are having now because of poor econimic conditions.

have to go back to work. An emergency.
Clay County Emergency management Agency /DHS

A severe weather emergency so we had to issue some warnings and follow the weather.

You may be sad about british servicement dying in the Middle East but you are Christian and would never had been immmune from Moslem attacks either.

Giving bin laden credit for the poor USa economy is not supportable in a debate. Too narrow of a cause focus. The deregulation of banks and telecommunications and otehr business types is more of a root cause.

Many in my area would like to see more armed predator drones on the US-Mexican border dealing with the cartels.

Poor decisions by both governments will continue but the hunting down of top AQ leaders is not one of them.

I also am sure that some Americans never liked having American servicemen die in Europe during World War One or Two. But many more Americans understood the need. I am not sure you will understand the need to stop AQ until it is too late for you.

I have never supported any particular school of historical determinism. Focuses on only a narrow Economic Determinist way of looking at history avoids many other contributing factors to the situation.

Your even mentioning such concepts in regards to my comment shows that you are on weak ground. My comment is still valid regardless of your economic reasoning. Most Americans then as now could care less about economics when getting into a war. Today's American volunteer servicemen do not join to protect oil rights or any other economic ideas on foreign soil.
In regards to WW1 still as I said regardless of American reasons for helping the British SOME Americans would not have supporting lsoing any sons to protect Britain or any other country. That was the jist of my comment not any ridiculous comment on economics.

"We are not having riots (yet) in the middle of our cities like you are having now because of poor econimic conditions."

Neither are we. Opportunistic criminals are using young thugs to distract the police in order for them and their gangs to systematically rob and loot, following a reasonable and peaceful demonstration in Tottenham. Numerous witnesses in every location where problems have occurred have reported seeing white middle-aged men organising the setting on fire of a couple of cars and a shop, which sucks in the police, and then gangs of hooded youths target high value and easy to dispose of goods, jewellery, mobile phone and shoes, mostly trainers. Then local scum try to help themselves to anything else available. It is not economically or politically motivated.

…I'm better off saying nothing……

Friends of ours in France and NZ have emailed me asking if we're alright; they're under the impression that Britain is in anarchy, with mobs controlling the streets. It isn't quite like that. It isn't rioting, it isn't revolution or rebellion, it is gangs of robbers taking the opportunity, initially brought about by a small demonstration in Tottenham, to rob shops and people, with the filth distracted by arson attacks. It isn't actually motivated by anything other than robbery, whatever the news media might be reporting. The Tottenham incident is just a pretext, and gangs in other UK cities have seen how the distraction of a fire and a small mob makes organised robbery easy.

It's even simpler than that. It's what happens to society when it is perceived that the police are impotent (even temporarily). There will always be a portion of society who will steal what they can. Remember the flooding in Sheffield in 2007? link

Dave since I consult with the local and State DHS as part of my position, I can tell you that you are so wrong again about there not being an AQ.

In regards to FOX news what does that have to do with anything? I listen to National Public Radio the hour it takes me to go work and back. They are very liberal. I have every news channel own at work. We are a small EMA/DHS office so only have 5 TVs.

MSNBC, the most liberal of the cable news, interviewed a British reporter today and he cited " that it is not a racial or ethnic issue. White young boys and girls are participating too". MSNBC also show a number of rioters who were clearly caucasion.

You are right Dave . your double standards on such issues where people can easily counter your position lets me know that maybe your position on the Napoleonics board are not all of that valid and solid as well.

War Crimes? According to the conventions, it is perfectly legal and acceptable to shoot anyone carrying a weapon and not wearing a uniform in a combat zone *OUT OF HAND*. The US is under no legal or treaty obligation to arrest them and treat them according to the Geneva Conventions, because the Geneva Convention protections specifically do not apply to people not wearing a uniform. The US has *chosen* to apply the Conventions to those people, in order to claim a moral high ground.

Now go away and do some research before you start throwing phrases like 'War Crimes' around again.

Well, not that it in any way compensates for the loss, but it looks like they took out the scumbag(s) that took the shot….

link

I'm sure "some" on TMP are wringing their hands and tearing their clothing asunder at this news.

Brave men armed ready to do violence on my behalf allow me to sleep safe and warm in my bed each night. I thank them for that. May God have mercy on their souls.

Mike "Bunkermeister" Creek

RIP brave men and women of all armed services who are no longer with us.

We thank you for your bravery and for treading where many of us would fear to.

God grant eternal peace to those who died and comfort to their families. Mr. Hollins' comments have been snipped so I can't read them…a good thing since my response may earn me my first trip to the DH. At least I would be with good company there.

So, Dave, who claims to have once worn the uniform of his nation thinks servicemen killed, trying to take out terrorists is a good thing. I'm sure his comrades would appreciate those sentiments. As a retired/disabled Marine/Soldier who has served with many wonderful Brits over a 24 year career, I know his sentiments are not reflected in those quarters.

To all the folks from the UK: We know this is not how the majority of you feel. Unlike some, I still believe Britain is our closest and dearest ally. After all, we are family.

My prayers and thoughts are with all of you during the trying times you are undergoing. I hope you can all stay safe, and this trouble passes soon.

Oh, and Dave, You are my 1st stifle. I thought it would never happen, but for someone to celebrate the deaths of brave soldiers to terrorist thugs crosses the line.

Thanks !

Kenshin-sama, we can learn much from you.

Hollins: – lack of oxygen has killed what was left of your braincells. You needn't reply to me, as I have stifled you.

If that gets me DH'd for a few days, so be it. I'll just get more painting in.

Why can't we all be nice to each other

As a Serving British chap, all I can say is that hollins does not speak for us, he may think he does but he is a .

Reserve naval officer, golly gosh, I suggest he keeps his head down in his books, perhaps if we can get a photo of him so when we see him at a show we can give him a good slap,

Tally Ho!

"."

Best description of him so far! Thanks, Nick. 8)=

Is there a petition we can sign to have DH sent on his mery way, preferably permanently. Escort him to the borders of TMP and given an ungentle push ?

Phil

Well, not that I defend the likes of DH. But first they come for him, and before you know it, they're coming for you and (gulp) me.

What's that quote about not agreeing with what s/o says, but defending to the death his right to say it?

Who is Dave Hollins?

Is there a petition we can sign to have DH sent on his mery way, preferably permanently. Escort him to the borders of TMP and given an ungentle push ?

You can raise the issue on the Poll Suggestions board, to be taken to a community vote.

I am quite leery of setting a bad precedent by voting anyone, even someone with such a bad history as Hollins, off this site. That method seems fraught with the potential for strife among the populace.

On the other hand, I do think he ought to be put off the site for his longstanding and repeated actions breaking the TMP rules. It isn't like he doesn't know what they are, given his prior trips to the DH for the same offenses. I think it is clear that the temporary time-outs in the DH are not making him rethink his actions and he can't stop making his anti-American jibes. Enough already.

That said, I did find this picture on Amazon, so you can see what he looks like.

So now we can be voted off the Island……

Better than letting "the dictator" do it, right?

Guys, posting a picture of him? What's that going to achieve? Kyote is right Bill, expulsion issues should not be left to the hoi polloi.

I concur. Bill, YOU make the call. allowing polls to ban anyone will not be a good precedent at all.