"Demonworld miniatures rant!!!!!" Topic

Well his is not a rant against Demonworld, or RPE I am rather happy RPE is making them once more. My rant is why dose the Demonworld line no get crushed by the evil empire?????? The Orcs look more like GW orcs than the old MJ scifi space orcs did, but they got crushed.

I was not happy when DW stopped making the line, and I thought is was because of the evil ones but it was they wer getting greedy.

Well I am really happy to see the line once more, I just hope that GW leaves them alone.

Noel

I'm not aware that it ever had anything to do with GW.

C'mon, everyone and their brother makes orcs. GW doesn't have any exclusivity over those creatures per se. I really don't see the similarity anyway. Plus the Demonworld stuff is 15mm, and not a direct 1-to-1 competitor to the 28mm GW stuff.

Why stir up unnecessary GW controversy anyway; the world needs LESS of that!

Maybe because GW cannot make a credible claim to 'creating' the image? They can be found in abundance in Buddhist temples in Thailand, as massive demons – which may be precisely what orc means* – with green skin, red eyes, tusks, pointed ears and armed with clubs:

The only real contribution GW made was to make them squat bodied and stupid, but the temple guardians are the obvious inspiration, and are very old in style.

*Tolkien's own statements about the real-world origins of his use of the word "orc" are as follows:

"the word is, as far as I am concerned, actually derived from Old English orc 'demon', but only because of its phonetic suitability."[4]
"I originally took the word from Old English orc (Beowulf 112 orc-neas and the gloss orc = þyrs ('ogre'), heldeofol ('hell-devil')). This is supposed not to be connected with modern English orc, ork, a name applied to various sea-beasts of the dolphin order."[5]
"The word used in translation of Q urko, S orch is Orc. But that is because of the similarity of the ancient English word orc, 'evil spirit or bogey', to the Elvish words. There is possibly no connection between them. The English word is now generally supposed to be derived from Latin Orcus."[6]
"Orc I derived from Anglo-Saxon, a word meaning demon, usually supposed to be derived from the Latin Orcus – Hell. But I doubt this, though the matter is too involved to set out here".
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orcs

Don't forget that GW Orcs reproduce asexually via fungal spores and are not, in fact, the result of an evil corruption of elves.

And the obvious inspiration for the look of GW Orcs rests in the slightly demented minds of the artists and sculptors who worked on those figure lines…some of whom MAY have been familiar with Buddhist temple iconography while others were not.

That some companies have copied, or nearly so, the style and appearance of GW Orcs does not make GW the sinister party in the scenario and neither does any other business decision they have made. Just because we don't agree with them doesn't mean they are the bogeyman.

Of course, expecting the masses to correctly determine the truth underlying logic and emotion is hopelessly futile, but there is always a place for a Don Quixote…

This comes very close to underbridge activity. Demonworld crashes because it didn't sell, nothing to do with GW at all. Unless the business plan is better it will crash again.

Don't you think that GW would have been far more likely to go after a line like Pendraken or Kallista which are directly interchangeable with Warmaster if they thought they could block other manufacturers of Orcs? The didn't because they had no grounds to.

I will add to the already well founded arguments by Buff, Konkurur, Sultan, et. all that GW has never attempted to enforce copyright or IP over the term Orc. Nor as far as I know have they ever attempted to do the same with the image of orc/orks. No doubt this is due to the fact that the image of a brutish, lantern jawed, be-tusked humanoid creature is pretty iconic in fantasy and mythology. GW has been successful in litigating against manufactures that have pretty much copied their IP of Space Marines and Imperial Guard and for good reason.

Enough of the GW bashing and ignorant affixing of mens rea.

The space marines, especially the beakies, are pretty iconic but, except for specific character names, what's so unique about GW's Imperial Guard?

The first time I saw DW miniatures I thought they looked like GW, which is why I liked them. So they have no IP claim on the fantasy orcs but do on the sci-fi Orks? Sorry for my ignorance.

even the first SM are reworked from 14 century armor and the new helm face a rework of a US army gas mask.
the next new idea GW comes up with will be the first.
Even the chain sword is not a GW first idea.

When I built my Warmaster armies in 15mm,Kislev was quite easy- Polish winged Hussars and Cossack/Muscovite figures from Essex.

Fantasy orcs are common, not original to GW, and generally indefensible. The fact that DW orcs are in a scale that GW doesn't do also weakens GW's case.

Orks with guns, however, are much more distinct. While not unique to GW or even original to GW, the prior art is not a household name like Tolkien.

Don't you think that GW would have been far more likely to go after a line like Pendraken or Kallista which are directly interchangeable with Warmaster if they thought they could block other manufacturers of Orcs? The didn't because they had no grounds to.

Having grounds or not didn't seem to stop them trying…!

I think the big kicker with the old MJ Orcs (based on the models that I've seen) was that they came with Warbikes that are in fact quite identical to the 28mm ones (Orcs + Kettenkrads + Guns) and 15mm versions of existing Space Marines (near identical helmet and weapon style) that featured 15mm MK.I Land Raiders. Orcs with guns are doable… just don't package them with all the fixin's that their GW-owned 28mm counterparts have.

It'll be interesting to see what direction Mantic takes with their space orcs, but I'll bet that whatever bikes and buggies theirs have, there will be no Kettenkrads amongst them.