"SBH magic question" Topic

Hi all,

I just tried out this game a couple of days ago. It's a great gaming engine! But I had a question come up during game play that I need to clear up.

Say I have a magic-user that I'm getting ready to activate. There's this big, ugly troll that I want to transfix so I decide to cast a spell and roll for three actions. I get lucky and get three successes.

I decide at this point to move one move then cast the transfix. So that's one movement action then two actions to create two spell points for the spell, right?

If that's right then I have two spell points to cast my spell. That means that my transfix uses the medium stick for range, so I can cast this spell out to three medium sticks, right?

Okay, assuming that I'm correct it's now time to actually cast the spell. So I roll 2 dice (one for each spell point) and compare these rolls to my Quality, and again for giggles, assume that I get two more successes.

So that means that troll boy has to roll two dice against his HIS quality to resist. If he fails EVEN ON ONE DIE he's transfixed? And he remains transfixed until he scores two successes when he activates next, correct? Also, lets assume that he gets these two successes (and not three). If that's the case he still can't do anything until his next activation (assuming that he succeeds).

If this is right then, man, transfix can really put the hurt on someone.

Now one more question for transfix. Lets say troll boy above is a leader troll. While he's transfixed he can't do any action at all until he frees himself from the transfix. That mean that all of his figures within Long range CANNOT use his leadership bonus to activate, right?

Anyway, it's a great game and has been a hoot to play!

Can't answer the question (haven't grasped the magic rules yet, I didn't know I could cast three times the range!!), but I agree, these rules are a lot of fun!

Check out the FAQ in Free Hack 1 abelp01. It really clarifies the magic rules in SBH quite a bit. What I posted above is what I got from reading the rules and the FAQ and I *think* I got it right.

Thanks for the tip!

As I read it, I take a -4 on my casting roll for 3X ranges, right?

To add insult to injury,have a gnome run over and whack the Troll with a big stick. All he has to do is beat him to kill him(same as a fallen).

abelp01: Only on the attack spell. That is treated as basically being a conventional ranged attack, but with a few things different. Transfix isn't a conventional attack. There isn't an opposed roll here. The magic-user rolls against his quality and, I think, the number of successes here (based off the number of spell points used) dictates how many "save dice" the target has to roll to avoid being transfixed. If they fail even one of these then they are transfixed.

Then you have the gnome run over and whack the troll with a +2 on his attack roll. The troll had better pray that the gnome doesn't have three actions… or else he is looking at a power attack which reduces the troll's defense roll by another -1… OUCH!

My son stacked up such an attack run on me last night. Good thing Mr. Troll had toughness or that would have been it for him.

Hey skink, wouldn't that be injury to insult??? Well… being KO'd by a gnome would be an insult too.

Gotcha! Thanks!

Maybe I'm wrong, but The way I've been playing, The magic user does not roll against his quality a second time. I interpret the reference to a casting roll in the paragraph about transfix spells as the activation roll, not a second roll against quality.

timlillig, I understood it the same way. I dunno, maybe the model might still have to do a second Q roll to determine RANGE!?!?

Also, I get the impression we're highjacking the topic! Sorry Tgunner!

No, you guys are fine. This thread is about how to use the Transfix spell and magic in general in SBH.

I was running through what I think is the process of using the Transfix spell. What you guys are talking about is what I did earlier. You see, I just assumed that when you rolled for activation and got your spell points that these were the "successes" and that you simple used them on the target, then the target made his saves. However I changed my mind when I reread the passage on page 10 and saw this:

"The magic user nominates a target and makes his Quality spell casting roll. The targeted model must make a Quality roll, on one die per point of power of the spell. So if the spell was cast with 3 successes, the target must resist on 3 dice."

So that made me rethink how I did the spell. It seems to me that when you activated the magic user and rolled for actions you were gathering potential magic points. You can use the actions as you want- for actual actions OR to turn them into magic points. Then you used your magic points to cast the spell. So with transfix if I used two magic points then I would need to roll two dice against my quality to see how many successes I scored. Then my target would roll dice equal to my successes from casting the spell to save form being transfixed. The target MUST save on every die or be transfixed.

At least that's how I read the rules.

I am sure that the number of magic points you use for the spell determines the spells range with:

1 point = short range
2 points = medium range
3 points = long range

Maximum range is determined by multiplying the basic range by three. There are no range penalties to Transfix because it doesn't use the normal opposed attack roll. It's quality roll vs. quality roll with no modifiers (beyond special abilities?).

But on the other hand, maybe when you roll for activation you announce that your rolling for x actions and that your using spell y during your activation. Then you roll and that translates into successes that the target has to save against.

The wording in the spell section isn't very clear on this and thus you have my question about the sequence in which the spell is casted.

You have to state that your are intending to use magic before you roll any dice. That way if you roll 3 failures your MU has just run out of juice and cannot use magic for the rest of the game.

Karellian Knight: That part I understand and it makes sense, it was the second round of Q rolls that sorta confused me, but I get it now. It's a variation of the Combat (C) roll, because without that second set of rolls the target can't defend iself.

Or actually IS there a second round of die rolling to determine if the spell is effective? You roll once after you announce that you're casting spells, so is that it or does this roll give you your magic points? Then you roll again to see if the spell worked (based off the magic points you used in the spell).

I looked a bit more and Andrea has answered this question on the yahoo group(Message #13550). The magic user does not make a second roll against his quality.

Oh, thanks for the tip there timlillig. This email has it in some detail too:

link

Then Andrea adds to it further down the thread.

Now that leads to another, and I need to be careful here or else I'll confuse everyone, which is about ranging of spells.

If I read the thread correctly you spend power points that determine the range (both spells) and power of the attack (as in combat for attack and number of save dice for transfix). So I spend 1 magic point I use the range short stick, 2 magic points I use the medium stick, and 3 points I use the long range stick. Now with regular ranged combat I get to use multiple sticks to determine range. For example, my long bow used the long stick and when I shoot it works out to:

range = long- no penality
range = over long and up to long *2- -2 to attack
range = over long *2 up to long *3- -4 to attack

Is this in place for the attack spell? Can I transfix up to long *3 if I use three spell points?

Or does magic use the sticks, period, for range?

Example, I use only 1 spell point so I can only target an enemy figure up to short stick range. I spend two magic points and I can target up to medium stick range, and three equals long stick range. No multiples, just up that one stick depending on how many magic points I spend.

Is that right?

I think you can use multiple stick lengths for both spell types.

Thanks goodness I am rewriting the magic section from scratch in the revised rules :-)

OK, here it is: Magic attacks suffer from range penalties, but it is just a -1 for two sticks and -2 for three sticks.
If you have special rules like Sharpshooter, they DO apply.

Transfix DOES NOT require a second roll. Total the number of actions you use to cast it (of course if you use some of your actions to move you are NOT adding them to the power of the spell!), and the target must "save" on as many Q dice as the spell was cast. If target fails EVEN ONE die, target is transfixed.

Transfix is limited to ONE range stick but can be cast even against someone in melee. This can be deadly in combat.

I am working on a magic supplement which will add a plethora of spell effects for those inclined to use them. There will be a point system so you can "build" your own magic school, plus rules for alchemy, shamanism, demonic summoning, potions, scrolls, hypnotism, mind control, amulets, creating magic items in the course of a campaign and so on.

Thanks for clearing all that up Andrea! And just in time for my next game.