| Clovis Sangrail | 22 Jul 2011 4:30 p.m. PST |
Gentlemen, we discussed what would happen if Napoleon had commanded the ANV at Gejttysburg. what would have happened had he commanded the Army of the Potomac? To make things easier, we can assume this is the Napoleon of 1793-1815. Thoughts? |
| 50 Dylan CDs and an Icepick | 22 Jul 2011 4:34 p.m. PST |
"To make things easier, we can assume this is the Napoleon of 1793-1815." Huh? As opposed to the ten-year-old Napoleon in military school? Or the POW Napoleon on St. Helena? |
| Clovis Sangrail | 22 Jul 2011 4:37 p.m. PST |
I was trying to cut down on all the posts about him being dead. That date range does given him a reasonable period of command. |
| 50 Dylan CDs and an Icepick | 22 Jul 2011 4:39 p.m. PST |
Ah, well, that was smart. We wouldn't want any silly answers or anything. |
 20thmaine  | 22 Jul 2011 5:02 p.m. PST |
Since the ACW was fought as a Napoleonic war in any case (see Griffiths' book) the result would have been the same. |
| 1968billsfan | 22 Jul 2011 5:12 p.m. PST |
Lee would not been able to pull off a retreat with his entire army. He would have scattered Lee's corps and diverted two Union corps through Washington, over the ocean to beat the confeds to Richmond. |
| 10th Marines | 22 Jul 2011 5:33 p.m. PST |
It would be a good bet that if Napoleon was the commander of the Army of the Potomac, there wouldn't have been a need for Gettysburg… Sincerely,
Kevin |
| average joe | 22 Jul 2011 5:37 p.m. PST |
But he was the commander of the AOP well before Gettysburg: link |
 Der Alte Fritz | 22 Jul 2011 5:39 p.m. PST |
Good point Kevin. The war would have been over in 1862 during the Peninsular Campaign against Richmond. If not then, then at Antietem. |
| Condottiere | 22 Jul 2011 6:21 p.m. PST |
I dunno I think that maybe old Bobby Lee would have given old Nappy a run for his money… Oh wait it would have been Johnston. Suppose the old guard fought for the ANV. Would that have changed the calculus? |
| d effinger | 22 Jul 2011 6:39 p.m. PST |
He would have won only if he had a B-52 strike as stated on Saturday Night Live. :) |
| DJCoaltrain | 22 Jul 2011 7:05 p.m. PST |
|
| DJCoaltrain | 22 Jul 2011 7:08 p.m. PST |
Ney would have launched a late cavalry attack and lost everything, while d'Erlon marched the Sixth Corps back and forth between AoP flanks, and Grouchy would have taken Three of the AoP Corps and marched off to Harrisburg. |
| Pictors Studio | 22 Jul 2011 7:25 p.m. PST |
"The war would have been over in 1862 during the Peninsular Campaign against Richmond. If not then, then at Antietem." I'm not so sure. Napoleon didn't come off so well in the Peninsular Campaign. |
 Saber6  | 22 Jul 2011 7:29 p.m. PST |
Pictors, he did when HE was there  |
| skippy0001 | 22 Jul 2011 7:38 p.m. PST |
His Marshals would show up and Ney would blow it again:) |
| darthfozzywig | 22 Jul 2011 7:39 p.m. PST |
On Day 2, Dan Sickle's corps would be ordered to seize Seminary Ridge, get murdered, and come reeling back. Napoleon would then order a second, then third, frontal assault on the line, much to Longstreet's joy. The then Moon Men would land and things would get REALLY interesting. |
| docdennis1968 | 22 Jul 2011 8:50 p.m. PST |
Well OK what if the Three Stooges were in command of the AOP? Would that have made things better or worse? |
| darthfozzywig | 22 Jul 2011 9:02 p.m. PST |
I, for one, would not tangle with Shemp. link |
| Mapleleaf | 22 Jul 2011 9:47 p.m. PST |
A What if question like this is impossible to answer. "If" we argue that we are talking about Napoleon in his prime then he would probably have used the tactics he was most used to ie Napoleonic. Massed batteries infantry in columns, sweeping cavalry charges etc. Given the change in weaponry and ranges all of those would have been suicidal again arguing that Bobby Lee fought as an ACW general. If Napoleon had used ACW tactics then he would not have been the "historic" Napoleon but some new hybrid. All ACW Generals who graduated from West Point were well schooled with and familiar with Napoleonic tactics. They tried them too explaining the horrendous casualty rates. |
| ochoin deach | 22 Jul 2011 11:05 p.m. PST |
|
| (religious bigot) | 23 Jul 2011 12:45 a.m. PST |
His infantry assaults would have been ridden down by Wellington's Scots Greys.
Fair dos. |
| Femeng2 | 23 Jul 2011 3:59 a.m. PST |
First, all his corps would have been in supporting distance of each other, so they all would have probably reached Gettysburg on the first day and have overwhelmed Lee on the first day. This is even though his cavalry could not have held, because they would only have had the authorized sabers – he would not have given them Sharps. |
| Man of Few Words | 23 Jul 2011 7:19 a.m. PST |
I don't think he would be understood…what with him speaking French with an Italian accent and the Union generals speaking English with a New England twang. |
| Condottiere | 23 Jul 2011 8:37 a.m. PST |
Seriously, this thread is still going? |
| vtsaogames | 23 Jul 2011 8:51 a.m. PST |
Well, what if Scipio Africanus had commanded the AoP? What then, huh? |
| Clovis Sangrail | 23 Jul 2011 9:30 a.m. PST |
Scipio Africanus would have kept his army together, had greater control over his subordinates and 'whupped Bobby Lee" He was "Greater than Napoleon" after all according to Liddel Hart. |
| docdennis1968 | 23 Jul 2011 9:49 a.m. PST |
Scipio Africanus?…. Scipio Africanus?… Slowly I turned…. |
| Grizzlymc | 23 Jul 2011 1:51 p.m. PST |
Wouldnt the Elaphants have been a surprise? |
| docdennis1968 | 23 Jul 2011 4:20 p.m. PST |
maybe the Oliphants instead, sorry hate to derail a thread with some nonsence! |
| Old Contemptibles | 23 Jul 2011 5:31 p.m. PST |
"As opposed to the ten-year-old Napoleon in military school? Or the POW Napoleon on St. Helena?" As opposed to Napoleon III of course. |
| Old Contemptibles | 23 Jul 2011 5:36 p.m. PST |
|
| HammerHead | 23 Jul 2011 9:33 p.m. PST |
Frankly my dear, I don`t give a damn!!! |
| 1815Guy | 24 Jul 2011 5:35 p.m. PST |
And what if Napoleon had commanded the OAPs at Gettysburg? |
ScottWashburn  | 25 Jul 2011 2:41 a.m. PST |
If nothing else, Dan Sickles would have lost his head as well as his leg :) |
| Bottom Dollar | 25 Jul 2011 6:55 p.m. PST |
The double-battle of Greencastle-Hagerstown would've been the ANV's last. No way the Frog stays on the defensive with a numerical superiority. |
| Bottom Dollar | 25 Jul 2011 8:15 p.m. PST |
… in short, he never would've made it past division command… or a corps in the ANV. |
| WarpSpeed | 25 Jul 2011 8:51 p.m. PST |
Funny thing is that no senior staff in Union or Confederate staff short of Nathan Bedford Forest would have made captain in a real army. |
| Bottom Dollar | 26 Jul 2011 9:11 a.m. PST |
There was a memorable scene in The Thin Red Line where John Travolta, playing a brigadier-general, says to Nick Nolte, playing a colonel, "Once a man gets those stars he becomes a politician". This is even more relevant in the case of civil war within a republic. They were both real armies. |
| Bill N | 26 Jul 2011 1:21 p.m. PST |
I guess Napoleon didn't make mistakes, didn't act on incorrect intelligence and didn't have subordinates who refused to follow his instructions. |
| Bottom Dollar | 26 Jul 2011 2:13 p.m. PST |
How many politicians did Napoleon have to answer to ? |
| firstvarty1979 | 27 Jul 2011 8:41 a.m. PST |
Bottom Dollar, That quote applies to military men, so imagine how political the officers were where many of them were politicians first and foremost, having either very little or absolutely no military training or experiences to assist them. |
| Bottom Dollar | 27 Jul 2011 1:39 p.m. PST |
IMO, no training or experience told in the very first few battles, but for the majority of a long war, training and experience came quickly. Napoleon's advantage was that he could make sure everyone was on the same page… HIS. |
