"Equipment captured at Dunkirk? " Topic

It is often said that, though the Brits managed to save their army at Dunkirk, they left 'all' their equipment behind.

So what happened to it? Surely it can't all have been rendered unusable by the retreating British, so did any end up being used by Nazi Germany? And if so, why have I never seen photos of (eg) German Garrison units with (eg) Lee Enfields or Universal Carriers or whatever? (I realise that small arms would have been the most likely equipment to have been retained, but you get the idea).

If not, what this because:
a) the Brits managed to disable so much of it that the few items recovered intact were not worth deploying?
b) the Germans considered British kit to be poor?
c) the British stuff was incompatible with the German arms industry?
d) another reason?

I have read account after account of British units setting their vehicles on fire when they hit the point near Dunkirk where the roads were so congested that they couldn't get any closer.

Lots of stuff ended up being used by the germans or passed on to other axis countries that were already using similar equipment.

They even went so far as to modify captured tanks for german service.

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Plenty of British kit ended up being used by the Germans, either captured in France, or later captured from the Russians. The photos are around eg on this long thread on Axis History Forums link

Yes, loads of kit was destroyed but equally loads was left in a recoverable and useable state. The most useful stuff was softskin transport, but carriers were used in German service too in small numbers, some being converted into Panzerjaegers, captured Vickers lights were also used as SP gun chassis and there was even on rather bizarre conversion of a Matilda II into an SP 47mm gun.

Like all captured tracked vehicles, shortages spares limited their useful life.

The Germans used any old rubbish…..

Example of Carrier used by Luftwaffe:

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More elusive photos of Carriers in German use:

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Further info on British/Commonwealth equipment in German use here:
achtungpanzer.com/briti.htm
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Cheers
Mark

'Using our own stuff against us, that's a typical Nazi trick!' said Capt Mainwaring.

That is quite a many Jerries on a single carrier – probably much more than many rules would allow for.

And don't they look Glad to be getting such a luxurious ride across the Russian Steppe?

Hehehehe.

Pat

In Reinhard Frank's, "Trucks of the Wehrmacht" there is a section dedicated to captured equipment. There are several pages showing British trucks duly repainted and with proper unit markings for their new owners. Most telling is the picture of a collection point which looks like a used car lot filled with functional vehicles collected from Dunkirk.

Wyatt

Can I suggest an Option e) appended to the original post

Option e) lack of Googlefu.

Check out this webpage – even gives the numbers of different tanks/AFVs lost and put into use by Germans plus some great photos:
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It includes two links worth a look:
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"1941, Autumn, Belgium. Sturmpanzer-Batterie, 15.Batterie, Artillerie-Regiment 227 is ready to leave to Russia"

Cheers
Mark

What a brilliant unit.

I know! Makes me want to build a fake Panzer Division based on 21st Panzer (perhaps calling it the 29th or 31st, equipped with converted British armour like this Self Propelled Gun on a MkVI tank chassis:

Cheers
Mark

Considering most British automotive companies had a German subsidiary or co-operative agreement with a German company, almost all damaged parts would be easily replaceable for the Wehrmacht. It would take considerable work to thoroughly put a vehicle out of action for good. Probably some of those used to build jetties out into the surf,….

Since Vickers sold anything and everything commercially for the " modern army' I'm sure there were parts, and manufacturers for ammunition.

Much of the abandoned artillery was used along the Atlantic wall: 3.7 in AA, 18/25 pdrs., 4.5 howitzers, and even Vickers 2pdr. pom-pom's.

There are pictures out there of German 2nd line and 3rd line troops with Lee-Enfields. Wouldn't have been a big job to re-bore them to 7.92mm; or just use existing stocks of ammunition. The Dutch used 7.7mm or .303.

The German NSKK transport organization used vehicles of all nations. Basically if it rolled, they'd take it! I have an old Wheels & Tracks magazine with photos of them in Russia with British, French, Dutch, Belgian, and civilian vehicles in the same picture.

Chek Axis History Forum: Germans with Captured Weapons and Beute Panzer and Umbau vehicle threads for a wealth of information and pictures.

Just looked it up. Those Germans in the snow on Bren carriers are actually in Norway.

Has anybody ever seen a picture of Matilda Mk. I in German service? Not just on flat cars waiting to be melted down! none used as dozer vehicles, or snow plows, etc.? It wasn't much worse than the FT17 and they used them by the score!

So this is proof that you can transport half a platoon on a bren carrier then :)

I have seen photographs of the British 25pdr Quad tractor cut down into a field car a-la-Horch fashion.

Many trucks and soft vehicles were able to be used by simply combining the parts from several, to make one good one.

Somewhere I have a photograph of a German military truck park just after the end of the war. It has a huge variety of vehicles from a whole range of countries, makers brands etc.
What a hotch potch. The accompanying article mentions that finding spare parts for such a collection was a QM Workshops nightmare.

So what happened to it? Surely it can't all have been rendered unusable by the retreating British, so did any end up being used by Nazi Germany?

The Germans had a very efficient system of collecting wrecks for melting down. So even if no longer of any use in their original form, they no doubt ended up being turned into metal to build something more familiar. Toward the end of the war their main remaining source of aluminium was via shot down Allied aircraft. So I'm sure the wrecks of 1940 would have also been a valuable source of scrap metal.

An A9 or A13 might have been a useless tank for their use, but would be a nice lump of metal when melted down.

I guess in that sense 'unusable' is a matter of how you look at it!

Ah! But there were FT17s all over the shop and not just in the French arsenal.

This link is to the main section of one of the site's I listed above: Loads of great photos of British kit in German hands:

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Nice photo of Russians with a Bren Carrier captured from Germans:
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A French photo collecton (love the Matilda II in Budapest 1945):
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Slightly off topic – Russian website wth heaps of photos of stuff the Germans turned round and put back in the field
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Cheers
Mark

An A9 or A13 might have been a useless tank for their use, but would be a nice lump of metal when melted down.

Hi Mal! Well 9x A13s made it to Barbarosa apparently:
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Where the Russians turned them into a nice scrap of metal for the Germans.

Cheers
Mark

Has anybody ever seen a picture of Matilda Mk. I in German service? Not just on flat cars waiting to be melted down! none used as dozer vehicles, or snow plows, etc.?

Top left, last vehicle in the shed. Could that be…..?

Been fun following the various sources available online and I've been inspired to form a new 15mm German unit for fun.

Cheers
Mark

According to Tom Jentz in his beutepanzer volume the Germans didn't adopt the Matilda I officially, unlike just about everything else. They did capture most of the production though.

Great find Mark, looks like the 'captured vehicle park' at the German proving grounds (Kumersdorf IIRC) – at least one of the Churchills in the picture looks to have the Dieppe operational marking on it, & thats where the Germans got their examples from.

Not the point of the thread but you see 37 pattern webbing turning up on Osties quite a lot and the first 'Retreat Gaiters'* issued by the Germans were actually from captured British Army stocks.

*Despite their nickname these were introduced in an order dated 8th August 1940 as part of a scheme to save leather for the rest of the German field equipment. Initially, at least, they were for issue to rear area troops and the replacements of the Ersatz Armee. So they would have started to find their way to front line units on the feet of the latter probably during 1941.