"Information needed for scenario" Topic

Hey guys,

I am working up a hypothetical scenario taking place during Lee's retreat after Gettysburg and wanted to see if anyone had OOB info for both armies during the retreat. Also needed would be the returns for any Union/Confederate units that were in West Virginia or Northern Virginia or Wshington/Richmond that didn't participate in the campaign.

I figure Nafziger probably has some/all of this info, but I just wanted to see if anyone had tried a hypothetical scenario duing the retreat and had already gotten the info. I'm not really trying to be lazy, I just thought of this idea as I lay awake for about the 12th night in a row (work related stress), conducting an involuntary sleep deprivation study on myself. It takes me back to the good ole days at Ft. Campbell, Kentucky, and some of the field excercises we went on.

Thanks in advance for any info or ideas on where to get the info (other than Nafziger).

Sincerely,

Russ Haynes, OKC, Oklahoma

Just off the top of my head, find the OOB for Gettysburg. Find the units you want to use, and subtract the casualties from the battle. Maybe not perfect, but it will give you a good basis for a wargame scenario.

For the other Union units, search the Official Records. Look in the three volumes in Chapter 27. Try looking up Organizations and Strengths in the Index.

Cleburne,

Thanks for the ideas! BTW Patrick Cleburne is one of my favorite Confederate generals. Any relation, or do you just like him a lot, too. :)

Russ

I just took a look at Nafziger and I can't see any ACW OOBs for anything that isn't an obscure naval squadron or the like. Did he not do anything with ACW oobs? Maybe because the info is so readily availalbe anyway?

Russ

Follow this link. Click on the Eicher "Ultimate Order of Battle."

This includes all the militia units in pursuit of Lee, as well as the command changes in both armies following the Battle of Gettysburg.

link

Working on a Falling Waters scenario for Volley and Bayonet. Enclosed is an early draft Federal Orbat:

Army of the Potomac
Meade (AC)

Artillery Reserve
Hunt (DC)
1st Regular Bde (M5, Fd) OO
1st Volunteer Bde (M5, Mixed Fd) OO
2nd Volunteer Bde (M5, Rifled Fd) OO
3rd Volunteer Bde (M5, Rifled Heavy) OO
4th Volunteer Bde (M5, Rifled Fd) OO
1st Horse Bde (M5, Rifled Fd) OO

Right Wing
Sedgwick (CC)

1st Corps, Ex = 3
Newton (DC)
Wadsworth' Division (M5) OO
Robinson's Division (M5) OO
Doubleday's Division (M5) OO
Stannard's VT Militia Bde (M4) OOO
1st Corps Artillery (M5, Mixed Fd) OO

3rd Corps, Ex = 3
French (DC)
Birney's Division (M5) OOO
Humphrey's Division (M5) OOOO
3rd Corps Artillery (M5, Mixed Fd) OO

6th Corps, Ex = 8
Wright (DC)
Wright's Division (M5) OOOOO
Howe's Division (M5) OOOOO
Wheaton's Division (M5) OOOOO
1st Section, 6th Corps Arty (M5, Rifled Fd) OOO
2nd Section, 6th Corps Arty (M5, Rifled Fd) OO
3rd Section, 6th Corps Arty (M5, Fd) OOO

Gregg's Cavalry Division, Ex = 2
Gregg (DC)
McIntosh's Brigade (M5, Mtd Inf, SKO) OO
Huey's Brigade (M5, Mtd Inf, SKO) OO
Gregg's Brigade (M5, Mtd Inf, SKO) OO
Horse Artillery (M5, Rifled Fd) OO

Centre Wing
Howard (CC)

5th Corps, Ex = 6
Sykes (DC)
Barnes' Division (M5) OOO
Ayres' Division (M5) OOOO
Crawford's Division (M4) OOOO
5th Corps Artillery (M5, Mixed Fd) OOO

11th Corps, Ex = 2
Steinwehr (DC)
Ames' and Schurz's Divisions (M5) OOO
Steinwehr's Division (M5) OOO

Buford's Cavalry Division, Ex = 2
Buford (DC)
Gamble & Devin's Bdes (M5, Mtd Inf, SKO) OOO
Merritt's Reserve Brigade (M5, Mtd Inf, SKO) OO
Horse Artillery (M5, Rifled Fd) OO

Left Wing
Slocum (CC)

2nd Corps, Ex = 3
Hays (DC)
Caldwell's Division (M5) OO
Gibbon's Division (M5) OOO
Hays' Division (M5) OOO
(No Artillery – may attach a reserve arty unit)

12th Corps, Ex = 4
Williams (DC)
Williams' Division (M5) OOOO
Lockwood's MD Militia Bde (M4) OO
Geary's Division (M5) OOOO
12th Corps Artillery (M5, Mixed Fd) OO

Kilpatrick's Cavalry Division, Ex = 2
Kilpatrick (DC)
Farnsworth's Brigade (M5, Mtd Inf, SKO) OO
Custer's Brigade (M5, Mtd Inf, SKO) OO
Horse Artillery (M5, Rifled Fd) OO

Scott,

That is just awesome! At first glance I didn't see any manpower strengths, but even then it is just awesome!! Did I say it was awesome? :) Thanks a ton for that link.

Still a question, though. Did Nafziger just not do anything with ACW OOBs, or am I missing something? I like his becasue they have strength returns.

Thanks again to everyone! :):)

Russ

The "O" are the manpower in 500s, if I remember VnB.

I should explain the methodology.

Strengths were derived from Gottfried's Brigades of Gettysburg (i.e. starting strength – casualties), the 4th July estimates by the commanders and a deduction for non-effectives (typically 25%). The orbat itself was from Wittenburg et al.'s One Continuous Fight, adding in the wing structure which is in the primary record (and Wikipedia) but not this book.

Each O is 1 strength point which is 500 men in line of battle (which is different to the number present or PFD, and is an estimate) or 6 guns. In the case of artillery batteries I often rounded down a little as the artillery horses were literally dying like flies and many batteries had to send guns away to park until they got fresh horses, but there are no hard numbers. The above works out at 33,000 bayonets in line, 7,500 carbines/ sabres and 240 guns (I missed out 11th Corps arty). They are estimates only for wargaming purposes.

I did not include artillery SP in exhaustion calculations, never saw why they were included so never have. A typical VnB unit is a bde, but the bdes are so weak that I consolidated to divisional bases. The same is not entirely true of the Confederates (who are typically consolidated into half division bases, except Pickett who has little left and has a little scrap of a division as one base).

I have the Confederates half done, and will send when complete.

Nafzinger has this link

Caveat Emptor, the increase in 3rd Corps is the assignment of French's force (which wasn't united with the army at the time).

The reports I can locate are
4 JUL: link

31 JUL: link

Lee's returns in the OR

20 JUL and 31 JUL: link

See if you can find the OOB books by Osprey. There is one Union and one Confederate for each day of the battle. I have them both for Day 3.

They are pricey though, actually asking more than the original retail price.

link

A good battle would be Lee backed up against the flooded Potomac with the 6th corps assaulting. (Lee expected it). Remember that Lee was low/out of ammo.

No, Lee had been resupplied and was ready to repulse the assault.

What I was thinking was a sort of run the gauntlet(Shenandoah) scenario where the AOP is following the ANV up(SW) the Valley and possible troops from W. Virginia and Washington coming in from east and west to cut off and destroy the ANV. You could also have CS reinforcements coming in from garrison areas once Lee's defeat happens and the retreat begins. Did Lincoln ever try to coordinate anything like that?

You could also run it as a mini-campaign.

One other question. Has anyone converted Basic Fire and Fury to division level (400/500 men per stand) with the division being the maneuver unit? Just from rough calculations I figured it would be easy for two people to control the ANV and no more than three for the AOP during Gettysburg. Firing ranges would be halved as well as movement rates, etc. Anyone tried this?

Russ

67tigers:

I have to question your assignments of cavalry to the various wings of the AotP. Buford's division was on the left flank (though whether actually assigned to the Left Wing is another question); Kilpatrick's on the right flank; Huey's brigade of Gregg's division in front of the center; the rest of Gregg's division in reserve/recuperating.

In the infantry, a new 3d Division had been added to the 3d Corps (troops from the Middle Dept., formerly under French). And the 3d Corps was in reserve behind the center. 11th Corps was in Sedqwick's wing.

Baldy Smith's division of militia had connected to Sedgwick's right flank. Couch was at Chambersburg with another division. Knipe had about 4,000 men near Harper's Ferry.

Scott Mingus in Enduring Valour Vol II (?) has a scenario for Falling Waters that has most of the Confederate Forces and the Cavalry for the union.
VR
James Mattes