"7YW Jung-Modena Dragoon/Horse grenadiers" Topic

I understand that the horse grenadiers of this regiment wore mitres instead of bearskins. Are there any 28mm ranges that would do suitable figures? I can't find any. Compatability with Front Rank would be an added extra, but they'd be on a stand of their own so I could tolerate "differences"

What about Front Rank British horse grenadiers?

Also, from Kronoskaf, it appears that the horse grenadiers were converged with elite companies from other regiments to form a larger unit. Like the foot grenadiers were.

The regiment counted 6 squadrons and a company of horse grenadiers. For battles, the latter was usually converged with other similar companies to form an elite unit.

link

Front Rank's Russian horse grenadiers wouldn't work?

Hmm, I hadn't heard of them wearing mitres before. Any pictures or references that you could point us to?

You learn something new everyday.

Interesting. I'm no expert on Austrian uniforms but the only contemporary illustration I have seen of this regiment's Grenadiers wearing the mitre cap is rather earlier- from 1734 when it was drawn by the artist Gudenus during the Rhine campaign. It was at that point called the Khevenhuller Dragoons.

I had thought that this oddity had been eliminated around the WAS, and that by the SYW it was wearing the normal bearskin. But always very ready to be proved wrong!

In terms of figures- I think you are in head swap territory. Using other figures will show differences in coat style, lapels etc that will spoil the look of the unit. The illustration I have seen from 1734 is quite a low squat cloth fronted mitre- lower than most infantry grenadiers. If still worn in the SYW, the style may well have got taller- I'd go with Hanoverian Grenadier heads (which also have the obligatory moustache) on Austrian Dragoon bodies.

This is news to me too and checking Kronoskaf.com, they too mention the grenadier coy. as wearing mitre hats in place of the bearskin hat, this is per the Albertina plates of 1762.

Further reading, the Jung-Modena wear converted to Cheveauleger in 1760, so this may be a reason for the anomoly. I found no further reference to the change of hat in Duffy's book, so I am speculating here.

Do note, their role changed from supporting heavy cavalry to a light cavalry role when converted to Cheveauleger. Not only issued with smaller hussar horses, the mitre may indeed have been a smaller model to provide the wearer some comfort while performing his duties.

Cheers,

Well, thanks for the responses! I'll have to do some further research before I do this regiment, that's for certain.

Dear John
Extract from my book on Austrian 7YW Cavalry.

DR5 Jung-Modena Dragoons
Franz Lothar Graf von Schönbrunn raised it in 1706 in the Electorate of Mainz. On 16 April 1710, it was incorporated into the Austrian army. In February 1760 the regiment was converted to Chevauleger and then back to Dragoons in 1763. In 1768 the Grenadier Company became part of the newly raised 1st Carabinier Regiment and absorbed one squadron of the Althann Dragoons. In 1769 it received the cavalry number of 13. In 1773 it was converted into Chevauleger and in 1798 it was converted back to a Dragoon Regiment. It was disbanded in 1801 with the squadrons distributed among the DR4 Levenehr, DR5 Savoyen and DR2 Hohenlohe Dragoons.

NOTES
I have seen no evidence for a mitre cap rather than a bearskin worn by the Grenadiers in the 1760s. There are such representations for the 1730s as I recall.

Bautzen (1762) does show DR6 Löwenstein Chevauleger in casket of similar design to the Feld-Jäger. Possibly what you would refer to as a mitre but without the usual metal front plate.

Alas I cannot be definite as the sources are rather vague and contradictory as you know well.

Stephen

where did you get the mitre thing from..?

I don't know if this helps, but the Gudenus MS booklet, Reiter, Husaren und Grenadiere that shows the cloth cap (so they look like Hanoverian mounted guard grenadiers in their red coats faced bright blue) reads…

Die Pelzmutzen entsprechen bei funf Regimentern denen der Infanterie. Eigenartig ist die Textilmutze norddeutschen Stils bei "Khevenhuller", das damit jedoch in der Armee--sowohl bei den Dragonern wie bei der Infanterie--durchaus nicht allein stand.

If it's a low-fronted mitre you want, have a look at Eureka's Saxon cavalry, specifically the Brühl dragoons/chevaulegers.

My info is purely from the Kronoskaf 7YW site, so hardly definitive! I can go with bearskins easily (and typically the first outing will have some anorak say: "didn't they wear mitres?" LOL)

I have the grenadiers from four different regiments brigaded together as an elite formation, each coy. with a different colour coat. All with bearskins.

Do post photos when the company is done.
Cheers,

Post photo's of poorly painted figures??!! Hmmm…

Andygamer- we are talking about the same 1734 Gudenus illustration I think. I believe he was an officer present with the Imperialist army campaigning in the Rhineland, of which the regiment was part- so probably accurate for that period. Never seen or heard of mitres for the Regt in later years though.

Mr Voltaire- I'd be surprised if the regiment was still wearing mitres by the SYW, given the general tightening up of regimental idiosyncracies after the end of the WAS. Perhaps Kronoskaf have extrapolated a little too far from 1734. But as I say- there might be a more recent reference.

I think that Mitres and light dragoon Casquet headgear are being mixed up, i.e the former is probably the latter.

I would also doubt mitres still being worn by 1756.
This Gudenus booklet (that I also have) was edited by Dr Bleckwenn. He also published a paper on the Austrian Army that gives some nice insights into this army's uniforms changes during the period of Maria Theresia. During the 1730's quite a number of regiments started to adopt a rather Lower German or protestant style of uniforms – i.e. tighter and shorter coats and false tiny cuffs, etc. This being cheaper. But already Charles VI (pre 1740) wasn't pleased at all with this new fashion and ordered his colonels to put an end to this. During the WAS and also just before the 7YW, Uniforming the troops, formally entirely the matter of the colonels became gradually more centralized and the matter of the government, in order to control the costs. The army may not have entered the 7YW as uniform as the sources imply, but it certainly has ended the war rather uniform.
That's my 2 Euro cents I can add. For the time being, still worth it's value ;-)

I'd also agree with DAF that this mitre may be confused with the casquet. Possibly source was a grenadier or carabinier of the 1769 reorganizations

Cheers,
Christian