"Is Local Scenario Gaming Dead?" Topic

My group does scenarios, Song of Blades and Heroes and Full Thrust recently. However, we are the oddballs in the corner while everyone else at the store plays Warmachine.

My gaming group plays 100% scenario games – I can't even remember when I last played a 'point-based pick-up game'.

From my perspective, it's an age-dependent thing. Younger people (10s and 20s) tend to prefer tournament-style games; once a wargamer hits 30, he usually had it with the marketing-driven point-based rules and becomes more interested in scenario-based gaming.

Only exception might be the DBx tournament crowd (now transforming into the FoG tournament crowd). That seems to attract a lot of older gamers, solely interested in tournament games.

There's also a period-bias: SF&F mostly tournament (commercial marketing machines), Ancients mostly tournament (tradition?), anything else mostly scenario-based (until FoW came along).

Our club plays anything and everything that's going. We have about 20 – 40 turn up each week. Board games, WH40k/Fantasy, HOTT, DBA, Principles of War, Fire and Fury. Pretty much anything.

The club is alive and kicking!

I think Phil Dutre makes some excellent points on age and period!

Local scenario gaming will not die until they pull my copy of Grants "Scenarios for Wargames" out of my cold, dead fingers.

@Lentulus: An excellent resource, indeed! It's the prime reason we only play scenario games.

I have seen them in Augusta GA, at Arsenal Games and Hobbies. Good guys and friendly to all.

I have run them at my house with my children and their friends.

Scenario gaming is pretty much all the CGC does. Just like Phil's group, we've gotten too old for the nonsense that is tournament play. For us, wargaming is a means of getting together to have fun and maintain friendships. Tournaments do not always mesh with those last two bits.

- Rod

My group (Stockholm, Sweden) play scenario games only, often planned over a few months as we can't get together very often. I know that there is also an active FoW scene at an FLGS in town and two shops that run GW games, but I have never played in any of the games, just seen them while visiting.

At W. A. R. we play both . Bring your figures ect. on the club night and play no hard and fast rules on what you play and with what rules you want use . Pictures of a club night on our web site link

This is what I have seen in my store for the past 10 years, and before that at the University Gaming Club in Austin. I make no claims for what it is like elsewhere in the US or world!

As others have already mentioned, we have lots of both in Austin. It depends on the game system, as much as the players. The common tournament or pick-up game systems have been noted. The thing that sets them apart from the scenario games is that they do have robust points systems and detailed army lists. This ALLOWS them to be played without a referee/organizer.

For the scenario games, they are usually played in games that lack a robust points system and detailed army lists. Since there are no "pick-up/tournament" rules for Napoleonics, ACW, etc., then the only option is scenarios. Those scenarios happen when the group leaders decide to organize something. Armies may sit idle in people's closets until someone decides to organize things, then they all come out for a big game, then sit idle again for weeks/months/years. Or there may be a flurry of games over a few weeks or months. One exception is FOG Renaissance, which has been popular for both scenarios and pick-up games and we are planning our first tournament in August.

What I have observed in the store for over 10 years is that games with robust point systems AND detailed army lists have a longevity that rules without those features lack. So FOW and FOG have been going strong since they started, with some waning and waxing. This is because the gamers are not dependent on the interest and activity of a few group leaders to organize games. So games are played almost every week.

For the other games, scenario drive only, they will persist for a few months. Then, when the player who is the driving force gets burned out, runs out of ideas, or finds another interest, then those games also die out. They may come back in a year or so, but only when the group leaders return or another steps up to lead the games. So, for example, Fire & Fury is still played, but it is pretty rare, compared to FOG or FOW.

So, as a retailer, I love games with points systems and detailed army lists. Because they have legs, I can stock the product and know that in 6 months it will still be moving. I can run tournaments to revitalize interest. People will play the game in the store without a lot of effort to organize play, and that helps sales. These games also make it easier for new players to access the game, since the detailed army lists offer a guide for newbies to build their forces. Finally, these games offer the advantage that you always get to use the minis that you work so hard at modelling.

That's just not true for games lacking good points systems and detailed lists. Other than the few standards (Nap, ACW for example), I pretty much can't stock other historical periods that lack a rules set with points and army lists. Too many times have I been burned with the refrain, "This is the coolest game ever! If you get minis we'll buy them!" And they do, for a while. Then another shiny new rules set catches their eyes, and they are off running for that. Then here I am with stock that no longer moves. (I don't blame the gamers, I've just had to learn my lesson!)

Some thoughts from a retailer with instore historical gaming.

Rob/Great Hall,

Outstanding post! It very much mirrors what I see in stores too, especially the link between pts/no-pts and longevity.

Scenario driven systems are truly patron/grognard dependent. If a guy in the club loves a system, provides the troops, and runs games then people play. Once he stops it's usually over unless someone else picks up the baton.

Points driven systems seem more self sustaining as multiple players learn the rules, build armies, and can play pick up games with lots of other guys. If one player drops out the group can keep going.

If scenario driven games are like largely one-way, old school media publications driven by writers/editors then points based games are closer to social networking sites which derive their momentum from users.

No.

@great hall games

I guess you're right w.r.t. the commercial value of point-driven/pick-up games.

However, store-centered gaming attracts a specific type of wargamer. In my exprience, usually the younger crowd, with lots of time available that is spent hanging out at the local gaming store. This is not meant in a pejorative way. I was one of them at one point in my life, but no more.

These days, my wargaming doesn't revolve around the local shop, but in my gaming buddies' basements. Having a circle of long-time wargaming friends moves you automatically towards scenario-driven play, which is much more freeform, allows you to play exactly what you want, and doesn't impose strange restrictions only invented to sell figures.

On the other hand , I can also see that that type of wargamer is not a solid base for running a store ;-)

We don't have a "local" gaming store any more, but we do play a lot of Scenario led games at our club.
deesidedefenders.co.uk

Though we have regular points based games too. So scenario gaming is still going strong here at least.

Our group was predominantly, perhaps totally, the scenario-based type for years. We actually thumbed our noses a bit a the tourney crowd and considered the products a bit inferior, or at least an immature form of the hobby.

Over time however it became difficult to keep everyone, heck even a few of us, focused on a single game long enough to enjoy it. I can recall 4 specific incidents wherein I spent weeks (months) and hundreds of dollars only to have a great game and set up that didnt quite meet with my buddy's current interests. (hello Ebay!)

Recently in the hopes of rejuvinating what was almost a dead gaming group a few of the guys started in with FOW and as much as I hate to admit it, it worked. Suddenly they are gaming a couple times a month, expanding and painting armies like they havent for years. Its good to see them in their old form again.

I say 'they' because sadly the bug hasnt bitten me. The "you bring 1500 pts of late war Germans and we'll throw some lead around" approach to gaming just leaves me a little flat. Not to mention the $1,000 USD or so I would have to spend to really seriously invested.

Still, there is no arguing with the success of the game, and others like it. Theres a formula there the designers and manufacturers have locked into which is both popular and no doubt profitable.

However, store-centered gaming attracts a specific type of wargamer. In my exprience, usually the younger crowd, with lots of time available that is spent hanging out at the local gaming store. This is not meant in a pejorative way. I was one of them at one point in my life, but no more.

I understand your point of view, but it is not necessarily the case. The average age of the gamers who play in our store is probably 45!

But then I don't sell GW or DnD or Collectible Card Games. (I know, weird, huh?) So, I would argue that it is not the fact of being in a store or not, but what the store sells and promotes.

But that said, we do sell to a lot of people who never game in the store. They buy locally in the store, but then game at home.

But then I don't sell GW or DnD or Collectible Card Games.

Oh, that sounds like a little bit of Heaven.

My group (and the two before it) have always done local scenario gaming.

Lentulus: "Local scenario gaming will not die until they pull my copy of Grants "Scenarios for Wargames" out of my cold, dead fingers."

Too right!

I picked up a copy after browsing Steve Bleases' blog, and have not regretted it.