"Is Local Scenario Gaming Dead?" Topic

Let's define terms first.

By Scenario Gaming I mean old school gaming in which the GM sets out terrain, troops, scenario, and rules, everybody shows up in his basement or at the FLGS, and a bunch of players fight the battle together. By "Local" I mean non-convention gaming…games at home or local shops on a Saturday afternoon.

The other end of the spectrum is Tourney Gaming. Two players agree to meet at a home or shop with a specified pts value of troops, a mission is selected or randomly generated from a rule book, and the two players fight the battle one on one. I call this tourney gaming as it's points based both in force stucture and victory conditions rather than scenario driven even if not done in the context of a formal tournament.

When I started in miniature wargaming circa 1988 or so WRG existed and WHFB was becoming popular, but the majority of our gaming was clearly of the Scenario type. Folks would run games at shops like EHQ or Games Plus in metro Chicago. Today, here in Atlanta, there are a few tiny pockets of scenario gaming but the vast, vast majority of gaming seems Tourney system based.

You can still find Scenario Gaming at conventions but if you want to game on a routine basis it's pretty much Tourney Gaming or nothing.

The advantages of Tourney Gaming are clear. You only need to build one army since your opponent provides the other. You only need to coordinate schedules for two people. If you keep playing the same rules year after year everyone knows the rules pretty well so there's no need to learn new rules each week or month.

On the other hand you're hosed if you're not a fan of the top two or three rules being played. At the moment Tourney Gaming is dominated by WHFB, 40K, FoW, and FoG. Three of those four are designed to sell miniatures which has a huge impact on game design and game experience. The latest rev to WHFB drives huge infantry units and FoW gets pretty silly with heavy arty firing indirectly ON TABLE in support of massed, close order infantry and tanks. In 40k "tactics" focuses on troop choice rather than fire and maneuver or overwatch tactics.

The other problem with Tourney Gaming is cost. Many systems put players on a hamster wheel with constant revisions and updates. It's part of their business plan to generate a steady stream of revenue from new publications. In Scenario gaming you could stick with one game for many years (eg TSATF) or roll our own. And some systems demand that you use their figures for formal events and then charge a large premuim for the sanctioned figures.

So what's the state of the hobby in your community? Is your FLGS dominated by Tourney Systems or Scenario Games on Saturday afternoon? Is your scenario based gaming group the exception and surrounded by masses of tourney players or are the tourney system players the odd men out?

As far as I can tell Scenario Gaming is increasingly relegated to conventions while routine gaming on a weekly or monthly basis is dominated by Tourney systems. As I note above there are positives and negatives to both. But I do miss the variety of gaming options available with old school scenario gaming.

No. While I don't game often (and that may change now that the basement is done), we never play tournaments. WE do play mostly pickup games, but every now and then we work out a historical scenario.

Steve

Not dead.

Our club never does tournament games. We only play scenarios.

Our club is 100% scenario play, no tourneys, no pick-up games…

In the United States you will be hard pressed to find a club that plays games other than the aforementioned, let alone one that plays non-Tourney style games, so in that sense I tend to agree with that is dead.

Although I prefer scenario games over pick up/tournament style games, there is a fair amount of both here in Austin. And I see the benefit of each and are not necessarily exclusive of each other, in other words the two gaming types CAN coexist in a gaming community. It really depends on what game system is being played at the time.

Not dead but limping along. Today, it is so difficult to sync schedules with other middle-age gamers with active families, especially if the kids are into sports or other gaming, such as Pokemon tournaments. Experiencing that right now, which means we get together every few months for a real game outside of some chatting.

BTW a couple weeks ago, I popped in a new local game store (the usual fanboy inventory badly displayed with obligatory busted sofa, clutter, and so on in the 'gaming' area) and said after chatting with the 20something owner that I was about 25 years too old for the store. He laughed and understood.

The club I attend in UK wessexwargamessociety.co.uk

plays a full mix of game types including FoG, Scenario and pick up games over a full span of periods including SciFi.

Under those definitions we play a mix of scenario and tourney gaming (though not in tournaments), mainly scenario.

This evening it is 3 player Indian Mutiny with the host as umpire.

Thursday it is a two player FoF WW2 scenario game (entitled "Encirclement") followed by a game of Impetus (which counts as tourney under your definition, but does not have the disadvantages you list for WHFB, FoW etc)

Mostly scenarios. A few guys play point-based WAB or WHFB games against one another but most guys run scenario games.

Ive never seen scenario play outside of a convention.

Tourney Gaming is HUGE here in the US. For whatever reason, it seems a large percentage of the gaming populous prefers "the challenge" of beating an opponent. (laughable considering some of the rule systems they favor)

The FLGS does seem to prefer this model as they make money off it.

It may be a generational thing, every scenario game I have seen and/or played in was run by older gamers.

One question – does a GM as in the OP imply non-playing? I'd say that was quite rare outside of deliberate demo/participation games at shows, although I've done it myself a couple of times.

Scenario games are all that our group plays.
Saturday night is the Militia game (last game was AWI, Age of Reason, next game will be TSATF Sudan).
Sunday afternoon is a Flames of War scenario.

I may have played in an Ancients tournament 3 years ago.
Our local tournament guys play with each other. Occasionally, the SAFoWG will give them some tournament games for practice, but that's kind of rare.

There's a local shop around 12 miles from my house, and I think they play tournaments.

Wow, my club has missed the boat if tournament gaming is the norm! My club has two sections – historical and "everything else". I play in the historical gaming section, so I can only speak for that part of the club.

Our games are exclusively scenario based and we take turns hosting/umpiring our games. I have never played in "points" battles or in a tournament setting so I don't know what those are like – probably just as fun as our games. While we design our scenarios based on historical battles, they rarely turn out as the "real" battle did anyway…

just about any given weekend just among the guys I game with there are 4-6 scenario games per weekend.

Ummm, no. Our group plays pretty much exclusively "scenario" games, set up and GM'd by me or one of a couple other guys.

w.

For historical gamers, it is almost exclusively scenario gaming at individuals homes.

For fantasy/Sci-Fi games hosted in games stores, I think point games dominate locally.

To echo the comments above, the vast majority of games that are played both by my regular gaming group and at the wargames club, are scenario based. Usually multi-player, umpired etc.

Perhaps this is more of a UK thing and/or mass availability of local players.

The only points based games are things like AK47, and, stretching the definition of 'points', DBA.

Most everyone locally are into even points games…… However, I've taken to hosting all sorts of scenario and uneven games and it seems to be taking off.

Unfortunately, it means I must supply both sides for the periods I run….

Fortunately, everyone that participates seems to have a good time playing.

We're a little different in that we play scenarios where the table and terrain are provided by the GM/Host but the troops (usually but not always) are brought in by the players with support from the GM/Host of course. This helps "feed the addiction" of buying and painting our toys a bit better than showing up empty handed to game a scenario. Of course a guest should bring a libation or edible gift for the host and fellow gamers!

Hardly ever seen anything like that. Every venue I've played at – in GW, at various people's homes, at my club – has had each player supplying their own armies, albeit using the venue's terrain.

A few people at the club I go to now have put on games like that, but it's pretty rare.

Personally, I play games to use my own shiny toys. Why would I want to use someone else's?

My club has a definite preference for points based games that are catch as catch can; I prefer running scenarios and doing all the separate game prepartions that pulling off a good sceanrio entails! This separate activity can be as much fun as playing the actual scenario and allows the middle-aged gamer a way to stay engaged when his gaming buddies are otherwise engaged. It also provides a great game related excuse to buy and paint lots of miniatures and terrain for that special game. As if I need an excuse ;-)

Lost Pict

Similar to what the Admiral says, our local groups plays mostly scenarios in which several players provide the gear and the host provides the space.

We're not against tourney type games – did a lot of that with Starship Troopers and Battlefield: Evolution, but were more likely to play a scenario be it Force on Force, Check Your Six or Smoke on the Water.

Our grpoup games either once or twice a week and almost exclusively does scenario based gaming. I don't think we have played a point based game in over ten years, going back to a period of playing DBM.

I agree with the "limping along" comment above. Although we do an annual WMA tournament during the holiday season most of our gaming is the scenario route. However, over the last several years it has turned into a last second, try to agree on something, get there and set up fast, then throw troops out until it looks right kind of game. Not sure if it's old age, burnout, too many periods to focus on or what, but the days where we did elaborate scenarios with maps, orders of battle, objectives, etc., have been few and far between.

At my local club (Metro Seattle Gamers), miniatures play is about 50/50, and most of the tournament gaming is a DBA group that meets twice a month. Certainly all the games I run are scenario-based.

I just ran one a month or two ago. It was a 40K game with Necrons, heretical inquisitors and orthodox inquisitors.

Oh, yeah there were Gray Knights and Daemons too. A three way battle.

Our group is mostly scenario play with occasional points vs points pick up games.

Scenario gaming is dead in San Antonio. Most gamers here are rabid GW fanboys with no clue that anything exists outside of WHFB or 40K. Sad lot. But then again, I guess that's a part of being young and dumb. Only time you'll see scenario gaming here is at a con.

Spartan 117

Never played a tourney game, always play scenario games.

Not Dead in the Tampa Bay area either. (Unless we're running a zombie game, in which case it's an 'undead' game night.)

Dude, we've got games going pretty much every other night of the week.

Here in Austin, there are several game stores which host fantasy/sci-fi (aka GW). I am not a GW player, but every evening I go in there, there are at least 2 tables taken up by gamers. The place I DO usually visit is Great Hall Games, which covers all the historical stuff as well as non-GW sci-fi. GHG has several tables in two rooms, and these are always occupied at near capacity on Sunday by miniatures gamers, with about half capacity on Thursday nights and all day Saturday. Friday nights are ostensibly board game nights, but a significant number of minis gamers shows up, and it's packed every week. In addition, there is a lot of gaming going on at people's houses. And none of this includes the tournament gaming, which is also pretty frequent. And there are similar lively groups in San Antonio, Houston, and a couple of other cities around here.

So, no, I have no idea what you're talking about.

85% of our games are scenario games. So going strong in Dereham Norfolk UK.

I think the original poster's "Tourney" moniker is completely off base. "Pick Up" or "Cassual" gameng would be more apropriate for that style of play. Just because you use "points" does not mean people always play like it's a competition, and from experience most "scenario" games Ive seen used some form of point system. Does that make these "Tournament" gaming by the OP definition?

I'll also point out the rules being used will encourage or discourage scenario play. Case in point almost all of my Battletech games are scenarios, and the GW games are almost all pick up games.

I know most of my playing is of the "Pick Up" type since I rarely get to play in a pre organized fashion instead when I get the itch and have the time I show up at the FLGS with my army and get in a game. I still do "scenario" play when I can so it is still happening it just seems to go in cycles.

Our game group is entirely scenario driven. We don't do tourneys.

I haven't played in a tourney style game in over 16 years. It's all scenarios here.

99% of our games played are scenario driven and almost all rules we play don't use points.

Only Impetus is played regularly amongst us which has a points system.

Our group is also entirely scenario driven, no tourneys.

Usually one person brings all the figs and stuff for a game as well. Only if they need extra (me!) does someone else bring figs along to flesh out the forces…

Striker 8,

I like your term "Pick Up Game" better than my Tourney Game. It better describes the nature of that type of gaming: both players bring their own equipment and play to a well known, almost standard set of rules. I guess a close parallel would be chess or singles tennis.

I think your term also describes one advantage of that approach: you can show up at the local FLGS with your troops and have a good chance of getting into a game at random. That's a far cry from trying to coordinate the schedules of 6-8 middle aged men! :-)

I guess I'd also like to see more multi-player Tourney/Pick Up games. I just really enjoy multi-player gaming and have had some wonderful MP experiences with games such as FoW. I also have great memories of my sons' first 40K mega-battle at the now defunct War Room here in Atlanta. Maybe I need to try to organize some of those! :-)

In the past the group has been scenario driven or derived from campaigns. Although everyone brings troops & terrain. I've always played sceanrios with FoW and got out of FoW when the emphasis became tourney games.

Has been a drift to tourney games with FoG. However, as I don't play tourney games, then I don't play FoG. Resulted in a severe reduction in the lead pile as I now have more time to paint.

It is dead around here. That's all I know.

My one and only local store has a strong following but the focus is quite narrow.

CCG…Magic, Naruto, etc. has its own room with 6-8 tables

RPG…D&D and Pathfinder has its own room with a fairly sound proof room, closed door, etc.

Computer gaming…it is an internet cafe, pays the bills, has its own room with 6-8 computers

Miniatures gaming…WHFB and 40K has its own room with 8-10 8' tables

*****

That said, the store owner is a great guy but the clients are only interested in the above, that is it.

They have tourneys for miniatures, there are tight (tight like a guy that can back up to a brick wall, clinch, and pop a brick out) cliques with the RPGs, and otherwise I suspect that the pick up games are limited to card games.

I am not in the clique as I am not there every night to build bridges.

Locals…until just this month I was alone here…but I have found a fellow TMPer local, so we shall see.

*****

Certain games lend themselves to pick up games…Car Wars, Gorka Morka, 5-10 man skirmish 40k/WHFB, Battle Tech/Heavy Gear, etc.

I would welcome a regular group or meeting with established games…it has been years.

our group does scenarios that may take 2-3 weeks to play because of time (We game at my house on Wed for 2 1/2-3 hours and then at a friends for 3-4 hours on Fridays(different games)

Wartopia,

Glad I could help refine the terminology. Being the surley old man I am I see anything tournament completely against the gaming ideals I was taught.

The type of gaming you see being played in your area really revolves around the people playing. Like my example most of the people I consider in my "group" just don't have the time for in depth intricate planning and preperation for epic level scenarios. But occasionaly some of us will get a wild hair and do scenario style gaming. And some times the scenarios are specificaly set up so the "Pick Up" game aproach works since you never know exactly who is going to show up.

I'm also surprised you don't see many multi player "Pick Up" games . I don't think you could go to my FLGS durring an average weekend and not see a 2 on 2 game going with the one vs. 2 or 3 being pretty common when newer gamers are present with a quite a few rule sets(generaly the most readily available ones but you still ocasionaly you see it with the less well know games). The truly epic size games like mega battles aren't as common but also tend to go in cycles all it takes is a few people to get it in their heads they want to play those size games and we'll have 1 or more a month for a few months, then a break till the cycle starts again.

Mainly the whole thing revoles around the people. You have to learn how to work with and around them sometimes to change things up a bit but it can be done with any game.

My take on the question(s) – I always thought my experience was the norm, but the more I visit Forums the less sure I become.

We only play scenario games, and always have done, no need for points.

'My' group has no interest in tournament play or pick up games with strangers.

We don't belong to an organised group and game at each others houses (slightly less true now as I also belong to a 'Big Game' group who meet up once a year for huge scenario driven games).

We don't have a local game store and never have had, in fact I've never been to a physical shop selling historical metal miniatures and I certainly wouldn't want to game in one.

We have been gaming for nearly 30 years and we use wargames shows as a way of shopping. (I think this is a fundamental difference between UK and US shows).

Our group is as strong as ever, despite members of it now living all over the UK.

I don't know the state of gaming in my area as I have no contact with other gamers outside my group, and no desire for any.

What is this thing called 'points'?

Hear R Mark, he has the right of it!

I think the only occasions I've played a points-balanced game (sic of course) have been where the umpire failed to show and a desperate need to push lead took over.

Sounds mostly like a time thing to me – my main gaming opportunities are about 2.5 hours on a thursday evening – not every week and i dont always know in advance. a quick forum post on our club forum looking for an opponent for a known-points known-rules game might work for me. A quick post asking if 4 others want to re-create vitoria in 28mm next thursday certainly wont.

From what I've seen the stores here seem all about 'tournament' games… 40K, Warmachine, Pokemon/Magic/Whatever… which is why I don't game in stores. I think 'tournaments' drive profits more than scenario-based games do.
I'd rather wait a bit to arrange a good scenario-based game with guys I know and like… unless we are just trying to learn the rules, like we've been doing with WFB 3frd. In that case we just put stuff down and see what happens.