"Science Fiction Centaurs?" Topic

First and fore front I like centaurs and I like science fiction, so why not?

Do we have any good examples of 15mm or 28mm miniatures for the same?

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I was digging for centaur data and found this soft scientific review of some of the biological aspects of centaurs as a whole which is fun PDF link

One of the follow up comments about the same article

"I'd much rather like to see a comprehensive study of what a Centaur would look like anatomically with modern day knowledge of the biological organism.
The idea of two sets of lungs, two stomachs and guts and two hearts is ridiculous. It is derived from simply merging shapes whose inside were largely unknown back then.
No upper ribcage is needed, the arms might more likely be anchored to something akin to a second pelvic bone. Also the head and throat would need to be larger to allow enough air to pass into the lungs."

Also good points :)

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Here is an artist's idea of a baseline sci-fi centaur

I do like the more lithe and nearly deer/antelope rather than horse portion.

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I have many pages of notes on and around the subject of centaurs…using various animal base forms; lion, rhino, deer, moose, pony, bull, camel, buffalo, tapir, etc…changing the connective joining point to a more centered position to better make sense of balance; found another article, this one on balance ridingart.com/balance.htm …reducing the torso in proportion so that the end look is one of a ratio closer to a child rather than an adult human portion to reduce inferred stress on the spine…and more.

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Certainly there are centaur examples in science fiction…

Posleen…although more reptilian than I tend to envision
Rowra…a tiger/feline type
etc.

But directly centaur, human + horse, in a science fiction setting does not come to mind at this moment…but I forgot what I had for lunch :)

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An amusing image

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A few centaur skeleton images

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Thoughts?

Centaurs and science fiction…a good blend for your gaming?

IIRC, the elder race of Andromeda was centaur-like (but blue), and Ringo's Posleen are centaurs, but without the grace.

These are good. As an archaeology fan (my best man was an archaeologist), I really love the skeleton in situ (and the mounted one captures it perfectly--I think I saw that one at the George Page La Brea Tar Pits Museum. Not so happy with the four human footed one. Maybe camel's or dog's feet.

Well I am still waiting for species 84…..might be a little longer
But this is my idea of a scifi centaur
link

link

Im still working on these in 28 and 15mm

Love the Reptilian Centaur idea. Not so much the human/horse hybrid for Sci-fi though. But! I'd support the idea for variety's sake. Need moar non-humans.

Stephen…I will open this up because I know you are civil minded and are easy to converse with :)

The Species 84, one of Khurasan's odd aliens, is one of those that just hits my brain like nails on a chalk board YouTube link

Centaurs are already impossible creatures but there seems to be some harmony and balance in the best of the versions.

This Species 84 is just a chimera without direction.

I completely respect Jon/Khurasan's vision for a pentaur but this particular result is like burned chili, just no good…at least for me :(

Jon has had a bunch of hits and has taken risks with some odd miniatures, so I may be way off base but this one strikes me off center.

The upper body is great…tons of potential for a strong smooth skin monitor lizard looking alien.

The back half of the lower body with the rhino feet?

And I know we are talking about an alien creature for gaming, but still…

The hands have three fingers and a thumb humanish hand, the foreleg has three toes on a reptile foot, and the aft legs have a two toe rhino/goat leg thing going on.

Ack!

How would it move? The back legs/hips leave the impression of straight forward mundane movement. The foreleg leaves one assuming a hopping action if anything.

All that said, I really appreciate the idea of a three legged centaurish creature…just not that one :(

Maybe a hand shape? Like Thing YouTube link perhaps? In a primitive form this five down would have given options that an ambush hunter could use…agility, grappling, pounce, etc. Then take the same creature and evolve it, bringing two limbs up to facilitate shoulders/arms for finer manipulation…maybe climbing. In the end you could have a balance of three down with a skittering movement allowing the option for some lateral movement, a flexible torso/trunk to account for a near 360* body twist also part of the odd gait direction changing, and then the two arms up.

But even if the Species 84 had the same number of fingers/toes, type of body style, etc. there would be more for the (my) mind to grab hold of…shorten the lower spine and create a trilateral hip with 120* facing…less straight speed but increased direction change…a seriously difficult movement to figure out for a sniper for example…moving in a jerky S or Z pattern.

Sigh…sorry to be hard on the design you like…but that one has always been a red hot poker up the hey not there for me :)

The drawing of Species 84, in particular, strikes me as a 15mm version of a Zoat.

Not a bad thing, mind you.

- Monk

well , 28mm, i love it, only if the legs were reversed…2 in front, 1 in back…using the back leg for balance like a kangaroos tail…..i would do my best if it was as i envision to buy enuff to make it worthwile
different strokes , i respect your opinion
thats the nature of aesthetics…some designs will instinctively trigger our gag reflex .
myself, i would love anything truly alien as opposed to fantasy in space
almost like the silicoid beings from battlestations…i appreciate them,but i dont want any
and i have tried my best to make myself order some cnidarian overlords but to no avail

IIRC, the Traveller Universe had alien centaurs, the K'kree.
I used to have some of them in 15mm.

"… No upper ribcage is needed, the arms might more likely be anchored to something akin to a second pelvic bone. Also the head and throat would need to be larger to allow enough air to pass into the lungs."

I don't agree too much with that. The idea of making the human 'torso' little more than a long neck with attached arms is an interesting one, but I think the concept lends itself to more derived 'hard sci-fi' creatures than quickly-recognisable centaur analogues. F'r instance, RL pelvises don't exist in a vacuum, and I'm wondering exactly how that secondary pelvis and it's attendant musculature would attach and interact with that long cervical column.

My initial answer to that, which sprang into my head before I even thought up the previous paragraph, is "why shouldn't the arms be attached to a ribcage?" I don't think there's much about imaginary hexapodality that outright prevents it. (though it might make it trickier) I know I've thought a fair bit about it in relation to hexapodal dragons (i.e. four legs, two wings).

One possibility: the sci-ntaur has one ribcage, but it's a continuous one. At it's most basic, something like a long, uninterrupted snake ribcage:

link

… but for a limbed creature with necessary extra attachments and complexity, I don't see any problems whatsoever in having the single ribcage divided into two main (even discrete) portions or 'bulges'.

Also, the limitation to one relatively compact ribcage between two sets of limbs strikes me a frightfully anthropocentric, don'tcheknow. Or at least mammalocentric(?). Let us consider the humble tyrannosaur, with it's preponderance of gastralia (belly ribs), caudal (tail) chevrons, and cervical (neck) ribs:

link

The latter more interestingly developed in it's good friends the sauropods:

link

And not entirely unknown in us small, squishy things:

link

All to press the point that if an alien centaur from another world wants ribs up by it's arms, it can have ribs up by it's arms.

Also, that bit about the lungs. The upper ribcage could be devoted to those. Maybe larger than the human norm, to properly oxygenate the extra mass, in which case chalk up another point for an elongate ribcage to house them. The lower torso, without a normal horse's lungs, would have more space for a longer gut for more effective digestion; and so explain why the centaur may not need humongous molars and cheek muscles like a horse for processing the amount of herbage it's extra-long body needs. If it's indeed herbivorous, and not omnivorous or even carnivorous. (Don't say 'vegetarian' unless it's part of a consciously anti-meat centaur sect. Humour me.)

Alternatively, part of the lower ribcage could be used to house an extension of the respiratory system, similar to a bird/dinosaur-like air-sac setup. Which would certainly address the amount of oxygenation needed.

Overall, though, I'd agree that a sci-fi centaur would probably need a little more integration than the simple human-glued-to-a-nag composition from fantasy and myth.

Sigh…sorry to be hard on the design you like…but that one has always been a red hot poker up the hey not there for me :)

You're a pedant after my own heart. I'll have to share some of my old dragon rants with you sometime.

I'll have to properly read that PDF too, but it's getting a bit la… er… early round here.

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Warren B.
minisculpture.co.uk

"only if the legs were reversed…2 in front, 1 in back…using the back leg for balance like a kangaroos tail"

Yes! Same number of fingers/toes, same general animal form, and swap the legs.

It does have a great face and clean look…the devil is in the details…the rock finding the right head :)

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Warren…I also have issue with the ribcage arrangement…keeping in mind that it is a made up creature…the ribs serve a purpose.

I suspect the duel systems is a bit unlikely, but multiple stomachs and a bit of extra soft tissue reinforcement for the lower back zone.

A fair amount of cartilaginous supports would go far in the centaur skeleton design; more for anchors with the layers of soft tissue (tendons, muscles, etc.).

Diet…the multiple stomachs would help with this advanced/complex digestive system but I suspect a special addition to the diet would be in order…high acid fruit perhaps…a constant intake of small amounts to keep the fires going.

We developed a centaur-like race for our Command Horizon universe. The basic premise saw the race evolve from hexapods, and eventually the front third of the body becoming more upright and the front limbs developing to grasp and manipulate.

The creatures have an exoskeleton covering the body and the internal structure is basically very tough cartilage to give flexibility. The respiratory system runs throughout the length of the torso.

We're not biologists by any means, but it seemed to follow reasonably logically and made for some nice little models for our customers.

I have K'Kree in a Kompanie sized strengrh and use them in Beamstrike

The K'Kree came first to mind as I have a pair of them in 25mm scale from Grenadier.

Another race, but I don't think they ever got about making minis was the Kess'Rith from Renegade Legion. These were a reptillian centaur. Very strong, very warlike and had a bushido sort of code of honor.

K'Kree miniatures

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Baccus 6mm Centaur Infantry miniatures

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Spaceman Centaur!

The above image is about as clear a vision that I could find. A clear basic centaur in a science fiction setting.

So here is the thought at hand…do we who think it might be fun to have science fiction centaur miniatures in 15mm and/or 28mm (6mm is covered :), do the collective "we" see a classic Greek centaur in advanced gear as above or as a few folks noted from prior posts that they liked a more reptilian type?

I found this one

It is a bit rough, but it is also older. A clean, well proportioned version might be nice?

I've got a centaur mutant among my post apocalyptic mutants. Of course my mutants tend to be more Kirby/Thundarr than realistic.

Would an evolutionary chain following from a hexapod on the order of Weber's Tree Cats in the Honor Harington series make sense?

Personally I can't see them being anything but meat eaters, not the Traveller Herbivores.

Centaurs in spaaaaaaace = pure science fantasy (even more so than humanoids in spaaaaaaaace)…
That having been said, I love zoats! I say bring 'em on… with lots of big nasty heavy weapons.

The Posleen from the John Ringo books are described as centaur like lizards or reptiles. They were genetically engineered by another race and turned loose on the galaxy.

"I've got a centaur mutant among my post apocalyptic mutants. Of course my mutants tend to be more Kirby/Thundarr than realistic"

If the Kirby reality was our only reality :)

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As far as diet and herb/omn/carnivore status…the baseline behavior would also be up for grabs.

It takes a bunch of bio energy to process meat. It takes a great deal of time or effort to process just herbage, especially the limited value type like bamboo (poison when young and tender, ultra fibrous when old and woody).

Considering an advanced species, one would assume that they would have dealt with specialized health/nutrition issues. Supplements to deal with cravings, imbalances, and other restrictive elements.

"Koncentrated Kloolu Krat Kapsules"
A full serving of Krat in each Kap…they taste better than good, they taste like Krat!

:)

The RIFTS RPG by Palladium games includes a race of sci-fi Centaurs. There is information on them in their first Conversion Book, and I think they revisit and flesh them out more in World Book: Canada by giving them their own city or something. Luckily all of my old RIFTS books are packed away where they can do no further harm.

An interesting centaur, not all scienced out…but there is potential in the base form (IMO)

MSB Toys, Hulumin Centaur (goatoid)

I am tending to lean towards a lighter frame.

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How about we look at the feet first?

Hooves?
Paws?
Pads?
Toes?
Other?

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I think that those interested in the potential for centaurs in a science fiction setting can agree to these elements, at least in some measure:

four legs
two arms
a larger lower frame
a torso w/head upper frame

So with that agreed (cheers and clanking of steins full of honey mead all around) we could consider the elements in common.

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I could go with the Spaceman Centaur as noted above, pretty much spot on for what I was thinking…it is what it is. No explaining is required. Anyone seeing this miniature would say "hey a science fiction centaur, how cool is that" (they would say it or get punched in the nose, grrrrr :)

So how about basic spaceman centaur in 15mm and/or 28mm?

A final passing thought…height/size?

Keep this species around human height or a taller 18 hands or so?

If you can still find them, Shockforce had some Not-Posleen called Scaleen. I wonder if MegaMinis got molds for them.

I have an old Grenadier miniature (has "1983 T.45" on the base) of an 8 legged small 'rhino' centaur. It looks sci-fi as it's holding some sort of scanning device, can anybody tell me what it is?

Zoats!

Tyrakids!

Every once-in-a-while, a topic like this pops up that I think, "Hey, I have one in the basement." However, I never can remember the name of the game or who sculpted them (seems like it was Julie Guthrie, though). There was a sci-fi game that came with around eight different outside-of-the-box aliens including a lizard centaur.

I think that HaT was looking to make some in their early days until it got shouted down.

There was an eBay seller who sculpted not Posleen, wasn't there?

@Palewarrior – sounds like you have a Virushi, one of the Traveller Minor races. Described as "quasi-centauroid bodies. nearly three metres long, standing around 1.8 metres at the shoulder and weighing around a ton".

Here's a
traveller.wikia.com/wiki/Virushi
link to the Traveller wiki article.

28mmMan there you went and done it again, though to be honest when I think "Space Centaur" it goes along with Traveller's Virushi and then on to Termaguants and Zoats. More of a quasi-reptilian sort critter instead of some mutation out of the Clade Artiodactyla or Clade Equis…

Now in a far future a Greco-Centaur-oid isn't all that far off through assumed serious germ-line genetic engineering/chimerazation.

Why not a Sci Fi Centaur? lets face it, humans are already starting to play around with genes, and we all know that there are scientists out there (probably in countries with lax laws) that would be breaking the rules around this science, throw humanity to the stars on multiple planets with all sorts of governments and there is no reason why splicing human genes with animals should be impossible, in fact it wouldn't surprise me if a centaur or some other cross species was created somewhere in the next 100 years, especially if there is some military application. What about a society/cult that revered horses? maybe some scientist try and creat the ultimate being.

John Varley's Gaea Trilogy has SF centaurs, called Titanides, bioengineered of course. I don't know of any miniatures however.

Wiki article Titanide (Gaea trilogy): link