"How many captured vehicles did the Germans use?" Topic

I have read through this excellent thread on captured vehicles

link

I think I got the link from TMP. Anyway, it is clear the Germans used a heck of a lot of foreign vehicles. Obviously you had stocks of French and Czech vehicles that turned east, and ended up being used "as is" or being converted. Added to that you had British and Russian vehicles that were captured and used against the Soviets.

I wonder how much of the captured material was counted on official strengths of units. I wonder if I've been misled in the past, counting up the number of PzIIIs, IVs etc. when perhaps a hidden German strength of captured vehicles hasn't been considered.

while the Krauts were the Pack-Rats of WWII, The amount of stuff (and yes, Tanks at least were listed on Official Returns) was actually small – simply because the wear and tear on Tanks was so high, and the spare parts not there. IIRC in Chamberlain there is a list of the Russian and other tanks in service by month – it's around 60.

Now, trucks and other stuff lasted a lot longer as did guns – look at the average Marder.

In the west Armour lasted longer as the wear (and the War) was less – so there were French Tanks in German Service in France in '44.

Pat

According to this book 10,000;

link

A whole bunch.
-Kle.

That book is including Czech vehicles – but since they kept the factory going it's not "captured" in the sense of taken in battle.

But yes – Germany used piles of captured material – often in second line or training roles – but still (successfully) projected a "triumph of German technology" propaganda strand. So successful that 70 years later it still goes generally unchallenged (outside of history buffs/wargamers/etc).

Krauts were epicly bad as organizing repair as well.

Also, don't overlook using the turrets for defensive emplacements. Most of what I have read saw them use inferior armored vehicles for occupation forces. The French and Italian armor was used as much as possible in this role.

As far as total number, it is tough to say because of cannibalizing vehicles as spare parts.

"I wonder how much of the captured material was counted on official strengths of units"

Captured vehicles and weapons were included in strength returns, but they weren't terribly granular, particularly for things like trucks – more along the lines of '340 3 ton trucks, 265 operational', they didn't differentiate by type, just as they didn't differentiate by tank sub types (just a laconic K or L for some types of Pz III or IV). they did show the major types of AFV and artillery though, including captured stuff like H39s, T34s etc.

"Krauts were epicly bad as organizing repair as well."

Actually, they were orders of magnitude better at this in 1940 than their French and BEF opponents. Their ability to engage in battlefield recovery and repair was another reason the Germans were able to maintain the pressure on the Allied armies and keep them off balance all the way to the French coast. Superior battlefield recovery and repair capabilities contributed directly to the German ability to operate at a significantly faster tempo than their French and British opponents in 1940.

As for the numbers, for tanks it could be a few dozens to several hundreds depending upon the make and model. Char B1bis in particular were used against the Soviet defenses in the Crimea, with a number ofthem being converted to Flammpanzer B2(f) standard with a flame projector replacing the bow gun.

Trucks? Well for the French trucks alone it numbered in the several thousands typically depending again upon make and model. Part of the terms of the Armistice also had a number of French factories under direct German control continuing to produce new trucks for the German war effort right up until 1944. One type of Renault truck that the French had just begun to produce in 1940 was co-opted by the victorious Germans, with the French being forced to produce over 20,000 for the Whermacht(!).

One of the "dirty little secrets" of Operation Barbarossa BTW was the fact that the capture of so many thousands of French trucks and Renault UE tracteurs allowed the Heer and the Waffen SS to motorize a substantial number of their infantry divisions, and add prime movers to more infantry regimental support and anti-tank companies.

So really the answer as to how many and how often depends a great deal on time and place and circumstances. For example, the Waffen SS Totenkopfverbande was able to expand from a motorized regiment to a motorized division in time for Operation Barbarossa thanks to Theodor Eicke's shameless scrounging, stealing, and requisitioning of enough French trucks to put wheels under his expanding organization. The Waffen SS Totenkopf Division rolled into Russia in the summer of 1941 overwhelmingly in French Renault trucks specially fitted out as troop carriers; I've a photo or two in some of my assorted reference books on the Ostfront, and yes, I will get 'round some day to producing a motorized battalion's worth at the very least for Rapid Fire purposes.

Captured stuff is fun!

Leland R. Erickson

IIRC converted French Unic and Somua 1/2 tracks made up about 20% of all the APCs The Germans used.

Krauts were epicly bad as organizing repair as well.

thats just plain wrong. they were masters of the overnight repair job with their own and captured vehicles beng quickly put back into service.
but they were also the only army to end up with more horses in sevice at the end of the war than at the start.

And yet they still have this "wall to wall tigers" mystique. They were good at spreading disinformation.

I just read how near Kasserine Pass they over-ran a green British battalion by driving a dozen captured Valentines into the perimeter pretending to be retreating Brits. So add those into the captured types used.

I think the best answer to this is "as many as they could get their hands on".

The Waffen SS Totenkopf Division rolled into Russia in the summer of 1941 overwhelmingly in French Renault trucks specially fitted out as troop carriers; I've a photo or two in some of my assorted reference books on the Ostfront

Any online pics, Leland? If not, which book(s)… I love having two good reference libraries within walking distance!

vstagames, not quite right. One Valentine was used actually, at the head of a column of 10PzD armour. They used the Valentine to achieve surprise but they were repulsed with considerable loss. There's a well known photo of the KO'd Valentine on the web, complete with German crosses & 10PzD Buffalo emblem

Well, then the guy who wrote "An Army at Dawn" bought the Valentine story. I'm reading that book now.

Here´s that pic picture

Any body ever see pictures of Matilda I's being used by the Germans? Not just railroad trucks of 'em being sent back as scrap! Actually used?

Also looking for pics of Light Dargons Mk.II or III in German service.