"Harpoon v. Shipwreck" Topic

Look to wargame modern naval action (e.g. Falklands), I am looking for a fairly simple set of rules that can still game the basic nuance and feel of the period. I have read some good things about Harpoon and Shipwreck. Anyone have opinions of these? Which is easier to learn? As far as I know, the only Falklands miniatures are available in 1:6000. Can Harpoon be used with this scale? Is Shipwreck still available? Thanks!

It's a crime on TMP to mention simple and Harpoon in the same paragraph! Shipwreck is easy to learn and plays fast. However, Harpoon, despite the steep learning curve, is far ahead in realism and simulation of modern naval warfare. There is also an excellent supplement out for Harpoon on the Falklands.

Huh? I never found Harpoon to be all *that* difficult to play. Of course I have an older version...that may have something to do with it.

Harpoon 2 to Harpoon 4 is quite a jump. It requires a lot of dedication and preparation by the referee, especially if there is submarine combat. The system is pretty realistic and the data annex is worth it's weight in gold for the literally thousands of listings for air search radars, sonars, missiles, etc... . Gamers do love to play it because it's pretty intense as death can occur at any second from anywhere on the compass. However, the referee is usually a frazzled wreck and needs to know the rules inside and out.

On a tangent: Dug out my ole Yaquinto "Fast Attack Boats" a few weeks ago! What fun!!

it's the OGRE of the Arab-Israeli conflict..

"Harpoon 2 to Harpoon 4 is quite a jump"

Guess I won't worry about upgrading anytime soon, then.

hmm...Harpoon 4 sounds intense! Maybe I should go with Shipwreck. ANyone know if these are available in the US? Also, could I use the Harpoon Falklands supplement for the Shipwreck info needed to create the Argentinian and Brit naval forces stats?

To try out Shipwreck we used some of the basic Harpoon (v1)scenarios and the harpoon ship data as the basis for the ship capabilities.

We ran through the rules and then played:
FAC vs USN, Inbound Soviet Air vs RAF CAP, USN vs NRBF sub on sub and finally the Harpoon what if Belgrano surface action vs an RN resupply convoy.

Played all four games to a conclusion in the space of about 5 hours one afternoon.

Shipwreck is definitely the way to go. Harpoon is way too detailed to make for a simple/basic game. In fact, as much as I enjoyed Harpoon some years back, I find myself much more attracted these days to simpler games such as Shipwreck. Harpoon is okay for small actions (and still will take you two hours), but no one ever wants to game out small actions!!! I prefer to emphasize the GAME in warGAMEs these days. Shipwreck is perfect for that. Mal Wright can help you out in getting a copy and I think I found his site for it on the internet pretty easily...including downloads of ship charts and such. Go to NavWarGames at yahoogroups.com and seek out Mal!!

link

You can get a copy of Shipwreckfrom the above site.

Shipwreck is the way to go for large scale (like battle group vs battle group) actions. You can play scenarios in reasonable time.

Harpoon is the name of the game if you want to do actions with only a few elements on each side. Detailed, and very cool.

Having said all that, if you have a good ref and a goodly number of players, you can have some great fun with Harpoon, and you can play Shipwreck without a ref at all if you have a handful of ships on each side.

Quick and fairly simple (SW) vs. detailed and in-depth (Harpoon).

Harpoon 4 is worth the upgrade from earlier editions, btw. And not only do you have the Falklands book, there's the East Asia book (Sea of Dragons), a book on the Royal Navy (White Ensign), and the recent High Tide (really a game in its own right using Harpoon) on th 80s. Can't wait for supplements on the 60s and 70s. And don't forget the Harpoon Naval Reviews: 1994, 1997, 2000 and (just published) 2003.

Even if you don't play Harpoon, the various supplements are useful for Shipwreck or other systems in terms of information and scenarios.

Is shipwreck suitable for 1:6000 ships?

Yes.

Probably better, since you can get more ships on the table than in the larger scales.

In addition to the 1/6000 ships, you can find Falklands miniatures in 1/3000 scale from Navwar. Although I really like the 1/6000 scale stuff.

I've played Falklands scenarios with Harpoon and Shipwreck. I usually use the Shipwreck rules when playing with guys that aren't really naval guys but are willing to play a naval game or two. When playing with guys that are naval buffs, I usually try to go with Harpoon.

I think both games benefit from have a referee, especially if you are playing anything larger than a few ships against each other in a single scenario.

The Harpoon system does have a lot of supporting material (much of which could be used with Shipwreck). Right now Shipwreck only has one supplement (although more are planned).

Both systems are good, it just depends on what you are looking for out of the game.

Alas!

Making supplements for Shipwreck, to the printing and publishing standards of the first one, is time-consuming and very, very costly. Also we are a bit shy of supplement ideas! The obligatory falklands one was eventually done as a download from the website–it just was not economically viable to produce.

However, there is a land warfare supplement about ready to go. It's called "Tank-wreck" and if anyone wants to do some playtesting…drop me a line at wwww.vandering@supanet.com

Martin Bourne
Vandering Publications

….oh and bye the bye, if anyone is any good at graphic design or cover art, PLEASE drop me a line :)

Martin Bourne

I carry Shipwreck in the states and have also put together
a sample pack of Figurehead 1:6000 ships that match
the fleets used in the 'Tea for Two' scenario from the
ruleset. Its a nice usable scenario that can easily
and inexpensively be expanded out to US vs Soviet
carrier groups.

—
Gregg
Strange Cargo Games
strangecargogames.com