"Force on Force rules for WWII?" Topic

I just picked up a copy of the new edition of FoF. I do intend to use it for Modern, but am also considering using it for WWII, specifically Early War Poland. I am still reading the rules, so I want to know if there is any reason why this could not be adapted? Also, has anyone already worked up some stats? Thank you

They had a supplement for WW2 with the last edition. The AA Forum indicates that they plan on putting the WW2 stats up as a download in the near future.

Mark

Since the game doesn't have weapon stats per se, things like bolt action rifle vs SMG get tricky. In the modern era everyone's basic weapon is an assault rifle so this problem isn't noticable.

But the main rules already have SMGs and shotguns, etc. included, and the differences between them and the regular assault rifles. It isn't hard to extrapolate from that rule for Moderns to use it with WW II, although as the gent said above they already have, and will be posting the stuff on their forum and later releasing a FoF book for the period.

> Since the game doesn't have weapon stats per se, things like bolt action rifle vs SMG get tricky

As Nazrat said, they do have rules to cover this. In this case the SMG rules and the Outgunned rules would cover it.

The new vehicle rules seem fairly streamlined to me as well, and should be easy enough to stat up any vehicle from WWII. I have not seen the old AA/FOF but I heard the vehicle rules in that were much more fiddly.

We have been using for WWII for quite a while. Lot of fun, quick rules, easy to master!

Osprey does monitor TMP. So I am sure that they will be interested in your opinions on this supplement.
I will make sure to ask them the next chance I get. I know of a few supplement project topics but I did not ask about WW2.

I would like top see this.
Mick

I am actually thinking about doing some Spanish Civil War skirmishing using Force on Force, again as Nazrat mentions, its not hard to modify the main rules to WWII. Just need to decide how to handle bolt action rifles which is the primary small arm in the 30's and 40's. Looking forward to actual WWII era supplements and downloads.

Dave

Thank you everyone for your input.

Regards,
Chad

I'm just using the rules as is. I suppose you can add one firepower die for units with semiauto rifles but in conflicts where all sides have bolt actions there is no need to change anything. You could argue that the Enfield could give the additional firepower die as well since it had a 10 round magazine. BTW I mean one firepower die for each "unit" not per figure.

As mentioned already the rules already cover SMGs.

Jason
Stafford, VA

You donīt really need to adapt FoF to WW2 since itīs already adapted for this period in the book with itīs own specific rules. TO&E and scenarios included.

Iīm talking about first edition, not sure if the Osprey edition covers WW2 too or if itīs been left apart.

WWII stats are not in the current edition. I have read that AAG plan to put them on their website at some point though.

WW2 is NOT covered in the Osprey Edition. The team discusses a WW2 version for a future release at some point.

You can easily use FoF for WW2 – the rules cover the difference between soldiers firing things like SMGs and others bolt action rifles ("outgunned" rules section). SMGs and Shotguns as well as pistols follow own rules, which have a dedicated section as well.
For all other handguns/rifles just go with the standard rules.
You might opt to change the First Aid check gaming table. Those cover the use of modern battlefield first aid techniques that might save a life that wouldn't have survived in a World War 2 setting.

My copy of FoF is 1st edition, with the late-WWII rules. Played them for the first time yesterday and I enjoyed them.

@DaReaper: As long as everyone has comparable weapons (ie, bolt-actions on both sides, or automatics on both sides), there's no reason to change the rules, and I think the 'outgunned' rule is in the Osprey version for those rare cases of SMGs or assault rifles versus bolt actions.

I'm not convinced that the Garand is enough better than a bolt action to warrant an outgunning die bonus, and checking the AA edition doesn't give semi-autos a bonus, either.

I would definitely use a different first aid table, though. From the AA edition:

Standard WW2 first aid: 1-2, dead. 3-4, Serious wound. 5, light wound. 6, OK.

WW2 medic first aid: 1, dead. 2-3, serious wound. 4-5, light wound. 6, OK.

I just downloaded the first edition WW2 ruels for FoF, I am going to be trying them out with mu 'mini' 15mm skirmish game :D

Having played 1st & 2nd edition FoF, I can say that the Osprey edition covers WWII infantry combat perfectly well – just change it to dead on a 1 or a 2 and you're golden.

As for tanks, it's more a matter of making them the way you feel is "right" for the scenario – although if you check out the AAG forums, there's always someone willing to give you the semi-official playtest stats =]

Is there any progress or stats availability regarding FOF2 WWII?

Head over to the Ambush Alley forums and have a look around, some people do play WWII with FoF. Piers Brand, one of the main contributors for Force on Force was talking about a dedicated WWII supplement as he felt the main mechanics didn't give the right feel for WWII combat. He's since gotten distracted by KGN for WWII games too, so I won't be surprised if a WWII supplement doesn't turn up.

To be fair, AAG has alot on the go at present, and they need to clear some work before they have the resources to direct towards a WW2 supplement – and it will eat up resources.

Shawn has asked me to contribute to it, and I had done a fair bit of work on specific WW2 rules using the F-on-F engine over the last few years.

I have to say I dont think it will be a supplement, but I would see it being a standalone set in similar vein to 'Tomorrows War'. Thats my take on it… Not an official AAG one! I would also envision it being like FonF2 with main rules followed by 'campaign' books.

It also wont be done till AAG have the time and resources to direct to it to do it properly. I know Shawn wants to do it, but he wont do it till he has the time to do it justice, and I think done right, it will be the best squad level skirmish available. I imagine developmentally, it will take a while to do as it would require intentsive testing to assure the right feel, but alot of groundwork was done with FonF1.

As for being distracted by KGN, I sure am, but I still speak with Shawn alot. Im lucky enough to know the two designers behind the best two 20th century wargames on the market and I use one for skirmish and one for platoon to company and larger engagements. All works rather nicely for me! That said, Shawn knows Im always 'on call' when he needs me to inject an obstinate and contrary view into things…

Dont forget, these are my views and not those of AAG! I have to say that or Shawn will send a naked Mikey round my house…

Oh, I'd definitely let Garands outgun Mausers in the sort of close combat FOF games end up being as. The Germans get the edge back with their MG34s / 42s (and I wouldn't let a garand / bar equipped team outgun MG teams or even german unit with an SMG at close range, of course, just the ones with just Kar 98k:s

Just leave it to ol' Gunny to prove it:

YouTube link

The Garand bit starts at 3:51, and he's going against an Enfield there, with double the ammo capacity of a Kar 98k!

One of the best R. Lee Ermey clips around, by the way, as a whole. Enjoy.

Yeah, the MG34 or 42 was a +2d weapon (and was organized as a 'weapon team' in FoF terms), so that 4-man team of German infantry supporting the MG42 would have 4 dice, +2 for the gun, +2 for the weapon team bonus = 8 dice.

Garands+BAR would be 4 men, but only +1d for the BAR. 5 dice. Ouch.

Yep, and the caveat under "Intimidating Weapons" about some weapons that didn't meet the 3D firepower requirement could still be Intimidating was written with the MG42 in mind – so 8D plus an automatic Morale Check for most units that it fires at . . . scary on a small table.

Best,

Shawn.