"Best quality Macedonian Successors in 28mm?" Topic

I have long wanted to collect a Seleucid Army and after many long years I have finally decided to start. However I am having trouble choosing a manufacturer.
So what do you suggest? Gripping beast? 1st corps? Molon Lave (aka Vendel minis)
Who makes the best (clean castings, nice detail) successor minis?

Gripping Beast Polemarch are very nice. I think they were sculpted by Steve Saleh.

Aventine are working on a Pyrrhic range which may be suitable.
Have a look at the elephants, Italian cavalry and phalanx

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I don't personally feel that the quality of the GB figures (particularly the cavalry) is of quite the same very high standard as the Foundry World of the Greeks, by the same sculptor, which they complement. But they are good (except for the horses which I hate).

The Aventines look very promising…

Simon

You have a lot of choices. Simon is onto something though and it's probably best to consider foot and mounted separately.

For foot I have figures from Foundry, Gripping Beast (Polemarch), and Crusader. All of these are beautiful and compatible. I don't have any from Aventine yet, but am looking forward to getting a block or two of them. If I were to pick one for the foot, I'd pick Gripping Beast. If I needed to save some money and had the Old Glory Army Card I'd pick Crusader.

For elephants I'd go with Aventine.

For mounted I have the same hesitation as Simon with Gripping Beast. For Greek lancer types the Companions from Foundry are gorgeous figures. For eastern cataphract types (not Hellenized) I am using A&A Parthians/Palmyrans. These are beautiful figures. And I'm also using them for eastern irregular horse. I hadn't realized that Aventine have Tarentine light horse now which look marvellous, but I haven't seen them in the flesh.

The Aventine Tarantines are great! Relik does some nice ones, too.

Most of the GB issues are horse related, and I believe they will sell the riders separately, so it may be possible to mount them on Foundry or even Aventine horses.

The A&A Parthian cataphracts are not at all bad, and paint up nicely.

There are some relevant articles on my blog, look under "size comparison" at bigredbat.blogspot.com

Cheers,

Simon

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IMHO, I would invest in a Old Glory Army Card. I would buy Crusader, some O.G. . I would also use Aventine nellies and some 1st Corp figures to fill in. Phil, I have some Aventine , when you come over you can have a look! Simon, I check the blog thanks for the inform! Allen ,I see you are awake now!! Cheers Mike

I'm really impressed with Aventine. I have some of their Italian tribe figures. Fantastic. Their Pyrrhic line looks very good. I am using Foundry Macedonians and they are very nice. But I got them years ago when the price point was much better. If I was starting from scratch I'd be using Aventine and Crusader. The Gripping Beast cataprachts are nice as the horse problem is masqued by the horse armour.

Why is that Republican Roman standing on that hill and just watching us? That is a good idea of considering the Horse and Foot separately, Aventine first, but not a compete range yet, their miniatures are beautiful and IMHO are almost fun to paint. Foundry has a complete range and are also great looking miniatures, but who knows what comes in a pack these days and their price keeps going up. Crusader are a little dated and I believe small compared to some of the others, but with the army card very affordable. Vendel's have large figures and a complete range, not overly fond of the horses. Gripping beast has some hard to find troop types, but once again not to crazy about their horses. Then their always Old Glory.

I'm less and less inclined to opine these days, but here goes.

I pick and mix and match from multiple ranges. I'm happy with Foundry's phalangites, both Macedonian and Successor (both with shield swaps: simple for some, more work on others), peltasts and other light troops, and cavalry. I'm very happy with 1st Corps' cavalry, and I still have a unit of their original Ptolemaic machimoi to paint (I like them better than the new ones, to be honest. Thureophoroi from Newline, Old Glory, and Crusader (with Foundry characters) all go in the mix--with shield swaps. In the absence of comprehensive ranges for them, Newline make up the bulk of my Maccabeans, Galatians, and Kappadokians--with some help from odds and ends from Foundry, Gripping Beast, and even Old Glory.

Did I mention the RAFM Maccabean army that will probably never get finished now? NO?

The Polemarch (GB) range strikes me as a little odd. It's hard to describe. The horses don't bother me much; nobody does horses that *I* think really look like horses (not even Ebob, although he's very good), but I can accept a lot. The one thing that bugs me the most is modelling reins and bits. I look back at my old Hinchliffe early Byzantines whose horses simply omitted them, and to which I fitted carefully flattened copper wire… Oh, never mind. I put up with strange horse anatomy, and I guess I have to put up with huge chunks of metal under their jaws.

The main problem for me with Polemarch cavalry is that the riders--at least the ones with cloaks--appear to have been sculpted in isolation from the mounts, so that the cloaks don't fit over the horses' backs and croups, and "kick" the rider forward onto the withers in an impossible position. They're not the only ones: Crusader's Republican Roman cavalry have the same problem (using Ebob horses). So lengthy sessions with the Dremel and round files are required.

For the future, Aventine looks like the most attractive candidate to fill out the Foundry phalanxes for a Pyrrhic army; they may supply command for the Foundry Successors as well. (I'm currently using Polemarch command groups, but they bug me; the Foundry rank and file are all looking up expectantly, while the Polemarch command are all looking down despondently. Maybe they know something…)

There's also an expanded role for Crusader's Successors when I start expanding on a Pontic army again.

I've managed to dispose of most of my A&A, and all of my Vendel. They just didn't work as well for me with the others.

For Seleucids specifically, I'm happy with my Foundry Successors and long sessions with a razor saw. I think Aventine offers some good upgrades there. But for cavalry, right now I'd have to go with 1st Corps. And the newildering array of options for a Seleucid army requires sorting through multiple ranges, IMO.

Allen

For my WAB Seleucid army I went with Polemarch (GB) for my infantry, 1st Corp for my cavalry and characters, Crusader for my light troops (Thracians, Levy) and Aventine for my elephants. They all look good to me when fit together. I have a few other Relic, Gorgon, Foundry bits thrown in there as well. Oh and some Arabs from Navigator (MagisterMilitum).

I got some pictures at paulwargamespot.blogspot.com
I need to put up my pictures of the Cataphracts from my last Panion Syrian Wars game.

Paul R

I like the Seleucid scythed chariot that looks like it's out off-roading on the Dumont Dunes, Paul!

Allen

Yeah, we had to jack it up for that little romp.

I really like Foundry's Greeks & Macedonias (certain shield issues aside). The new Aventine Pyrrhic guys look really great too. However, I think they may be slightly bigger than Foundry – at least the elephant crew guys I have from them are. They'd make a nice front rank, and you can fill the rear ranks with other makes – maybe that boxed set from Crusader? BTW, these separate embossed shields from Crusader link are really nice – slightly larger in diameter than Foundry ones though. Dean

Dean, Simon did a comparison:

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…which makes me think that mixing Aventine phalangites (especially in the front rank) and Foundry and Crusader will not be much of an issue.

And you did the razor saw thing well:

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…but if I'm going to that much trouble, I'm going with LBMS!

Allen

Dean, I also love the Foundry Rank and File…. The Aventines are a tiny bit taller than Foundry, and slightly heavier set. Probably compatible, though…

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Simon

I note that you are flexible enough to change your mind, as you had written here:

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"Crusader shields actually look nicer and more realistic than these "bottle cap" shields, but I'm not carving them off."

Don't worry; your progress is waaaay ahead of mine!

Allen

I should also mention that Simon is the UK end of the trans-Atlantic shield smuggling cartel: bottle caps go eastward, and are replaced in turn with Polemarch shields…

Allen

Allen:

Oh, yeah – I remember seeing that on Simon's blog – in fact, I commented on it Forgot about that one – actually they look fine with the other makes.

And I took your advice from your blog for the slicing off of Foundry shields/bottle caps to Regards, Dean

I'm have just started painting Aventines pikemen. They are much better than both GB and Foundry. Better details, better fun. But can you use them for Seleukids? Don't know. Do a Pyrric or late Makedonian army instead. :-)

"But can you use them for Seleukids?"

Sure! Why not?

Allen

Well, Smurf hats are seen as "the" Seleukid helmet for pikemen and none of Aventines have one. And many want pikemen with trousers and so far they have not done any. The GB pikemen have a more "traditional" look of what Seleukid pikemen should look like. :-)

But Allen, I could live without Smurf helmets (or just do some quick head swaps) and if you ask me those eastern pikemen could stay at home, so I suppose you are right.

Björn

Are you talking about Thracian helmets? I certainly don't "see" them as "the" Seleukid helmet. But Aventine does several variations on them. Why trousers? What… never mind. Good luck. I hope you find what you're looking for.

Allen

I am reconsidering shieldectomy after seeing Dean's Silver shields… at least for my own Silver shields.

Aventine have quite a few older men in their unit, which might help if one wanted to do a unit of Alexander's veterans.

Simon

Only a minority of the Foundry figures have integral shields, I have over 100 pikemen and none of them do. It was perhaps the bulk figures that they did in large packs for a little while… (?)

You could also consider Essex's range. They are a good 28mm size. Postage rates are rather high but the ranges hold up well compared to more recent figures.

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Their Seleucid cataphracts are fine as are their Companions. Thureophoroi and Thorakitai are good albeit with stubby legs. Look at their other ranges like Later Hoplite Greek (good general). I have mixed them with Polemarch command.

For General figures do look at A&A Carthaginians by the way.

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"Only a minority of the Foundry figures have integral shields, I have over 100 pikemen and none of them do. It was perhaps the bulk figures that they did in large packs for a little while… (?)"

Not the bulk packs per se, but the single-pose packs: currently listed under codes 14/1 through 14/8. All the Successors are that way. The Alexandrian Macedonians come with separate shields, which are easily swapped out.

"For General figures do look at A&A Carthaginians by the way."

Have hordes of them! But with their helmet selection, I think I'll keep them leading Punic phalanxes.

Allen

I've hundreds of the single pose minis, which I love because of their stance and the extravagent plumes on some. I'm planning to mx in Polemarchs for variety.

Simon

I have to say that I am simply overwhelmed by the number of replies my question has received. A big thank you to all of you for sharing your thoughts on this.

I think I will go ahead and order the first units. I will probably place numerous small orders from Gripping Beast, Foundry, Vendel and Aventine. This way I can decide which style suits me best.

Does any one know if the above minis are sold by a single internet shop (it will save a lot on the shipping)

cheers!

Does any one know if the above minis are sold by a single internet shop (it will save a lot on the shipping)

I don't think so – In fact Vendel is now called Molon Labe and sold by Sgt Major Miniatures. An alternative would be to check out ebay and see what you find – Foundry shows up routinely there. The rest not so often; Aventine is so new (relatively) that they're best ordered direct. Dean

I have opted for a mixture of Foundry and crusader for the foot, first corps ofr the cav and a real good mix for the lights, GB, foundry, first corps and BTD even.

My pontic project has been fun and is only a few months away from completion link then on to my selucids, with a few units that will change it to alexandrian in nature with a bit of mix and match, with only a few specialist units.

cheers
matt

One can't really go wrong with the choices presented.
For infantry I tend to favor Polemarch/GB and Foundry. For cavalry I like 1st Corps better. Old Glory has some very useful models as well as Crusader. Relic has nice characters and auxiliaries, and soem very nice light cavalry. Best to sample what you like and don't like. The Vendel figures are very big but their guards phalanx can be nice. I'm not as fond of their cavalry. I tend to stay away from the myth of the trousered phalangites… maybe until Pontics, or the minority of Pandodapoi of the early Successor wars… in between it was Greek garb…. The Polemarch figures have elites with capes… although unlikely as battlefield gear they do make a unit stand out as an elite unit on the tbaletop.
The Aventine figures are quite detailed and ornate… they are bigger usually than others… I don't have any yet…
JJ

I like Relic miniatures line of successors, although small it is expanding. High quality casts, that also lead free white metal. Also great character models

I understand Salish designed both the Foundry and GB successor pike figures. Is one to be preferred over the other?

Good Lord – those Aventines make me want to start with Pyrrhus in 25mm (I have his army in 15mm already…)

First Nation tribesmen of the Pacific Northwest are sculpting figures now? I had no idea. Unless Mike is actually a Flathead?

"Is one to be preferred over the other?"

Look at the photo under the tools:

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Not a lot of stylistic difference between Foundry (the two on the left) and Polemarch/GB (on the right). See also:

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More difference between horses, which has irked Simin:

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Allen

None of those horses look good to me – necks too short, not deep enough in the chest, weirdly proportioned legs…
Oh well, I always moan about horses, and these aren't really any worse than 99% of wargames horses.

Allen thank you. You are a scholar and gentleman. Now if you would, get and paint an Aventine pikeman so I can compare them to the Foundry and GB. I'm sure you have nothing else to do but meet my needs. [JUST KIDDING!!!]

Again thanks.

I have taken a picture of 4 figures, they are (from left to right): GB, Foundry, A&A, Aventine.
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Not sure if anyone has yet mentioned Gorgon – lovely figures with more on the way.

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They are similar in size to Aventine and I have some of their 2nd class Etruscan spearman to paint up as Tarentine hoplites for Pyrrhus.