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"New Skirmish Game Sneak Peek!" Topic


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3,232 hits since 21 Apr 2011
©1994-2014 Bill Armintrout
Comments or corrections?

Bob Faust of Strategic Elite Sponsoring Member of TMP21 Apr 2011 2:18 p.m. PST

Hi,

I just put a sneak peek of my new all periods skirmish game, Strike Force Commander up on my blog page.

I've mentioned that I've been working on this over the past 5 years, and for those who were interested, well, its almost here!

You can read up on it at 4sparta.blogspot.com

All comments and questions are welcome. Please be sure to vote on the poll.

Best regards,

Faust23

Bob Faust of Strategic Elite Sponsoring Member of TMP22 Apr 2011 8:58 a.m. PST

For those of you who read the sneak peek, what do you think?

firstvarty197922 Apr 2011 9:23 a.m. PST

I've never been a fan of the "One Rulebook – All Eras" concept. I just think there is far too much of a difference between cultures, military training, technology, and the method of warfare over time for one set of rules to accurately capture it all. And a simplified, generic set just doesn't seem to be able to grab my interest. You might consider a seperate rules set for each of the eras that you identify. Just my thoughts…

Bob Faust of Strategic Elite Sponsoring Member of TMP22 Apr 2011 10:21 a.m. PST

Thanks for your feedback.

I knew going in to the design of these rules five years ago that it wouldn't be for everyone.

Some people balk at the idea while others embrace it.

The design philosophy I have on the matter is that the only real difference between warriors in history is their equipment, tactics, and training.

For a man-to-man skirmish game, these differences aren't as far apart as one might imagine. A Navy Seal killing a man with a k-bar isn't too different from a Spartan Hoplite killing a man with his 12 inch xiphos.

The one thing about my rules you may like is that there are no fixed profiles for models through history. You get to design your models' profiles, based on what you think they should be. So your Seal team and my Seal team will vary slightly based upon our personal interpretations of what they would be. Though they both were built off of the Elite Force Organization chart.

This keeps the arguing to a minimum, and also represents the fact that on any given small unit of troops, some are more experienced or talented than others. But when viewed on a large army level, they become homogenized.

Thanks for your feedback.

Lion in the Stars Supporting Member of TMP22 Apr 2011 11:14 a.m. PST

You might consider a separate rules set for each of the eras that you identify.
Or at least some specific rules to tweak some weapon generational differences.

For example, some people have talked about using Ambush Alley for Napoleonic skirmish, but it was pointed out that the reload time of a muzzle-loader makes it almost impossible to have all the interruptions that you can get in AA. So, you would need a special rule to reflect that in order to accurately game muzzle-loader skirmishes. The rules as-written work fine for any battle after the introduction of metallic cartridges, however.

Bob Faust of Strategic Elite Sponsoring Member of TMP22 Apr 2011 11:27 a.m. PST

Each period has specific rules that define the weapon differences of that era.

A Modern Firearm performs differently than a Black Powder Firearm.

There is sufficient granularity to meet those challenges and still not bog down in bullet counting tedium.

I wouldn't release a game that didn't quantify the differences sufficiently.

I think that because no one has successfully done the one rule set for all periods before, many are skeptical. Playing the game will be the truest test.

Thanks for your thoughts.

John Leahy Sponsoring Member of TMP22 Apr 2011 11:35 a.m. PST

I think you hit the nail on the head. "because no one has successfully done the one rule set for all periods before, many are skeptical". Since gaming has been around for at least 50+ years many folks simply won't buy into this both metaphorically and in reality. My advice would have been to A. Choose a different title. The title doesn't convey anything but a modern or scifi feel for your rules. It certainly does NOT imply it's a set I can use for Ancients or Horse and Musket gaming.
B. Since even you admited folks will be VERY skeptical you may want to have either a detailed walk through of a few game turns available for folks to see or a Lite version of the rules available. The first thing I thought was this was either a Spaceship game or a scifi skirmish ala the new GRUNTZ being playtested. It was the title that confused me.

Thanks,

John

Goldwyrm Inactive Member22 Apr 2011 11:46 a.m. PST

What's the ground scale?

abdul666lw22 Apr 2011 12:04 p.m. PST

Well I really liked WRG 6th Ed. covering 3500Bc – 1500 AD (specially when Ancient – Medieval players, so long ago, were a merry bunch happy to field Agincourt Knights against Sumerians), so I like the idea of 'wide spanning' rules, and the division of Human / military history into 3 main 'periods'.
Now, having the same basic system for the 3… why not? Renaissance and Colonial warfares provide actual examples of opponents belonging to different 'periods' (Precolumbian Amerindians were 'technically' of the level of Ancient Kingdom Egypt, Zulus were also an 'Ancient' army) and rules can successfully cover these 'asymmetrical' wars, so…

Terrement Supporting Member of TMP22 Apr 2011 12:56 p.m. PST

"The one thing about my rules you may like is that there are no fixed profiles for models through history. You get to design your models' profiles, based on what you think they should be."

I'll be interested to see how that works out in the game.

I'm curious overall, and have been (understandably?) disappointed with the "One rule set to game them all" attempts (gaming since the early '70s).

Please keep us posted.

JJ

Bob Faust of Strategic Elite Sponsoring Member of TMP22 Apr 2011 1:26 p.m. PST

Great feedback. I can always count on this forum for some decent commentary!

So, let's go down the list.

Ground scale – I assume you mean what scale of mini? Anything from 20mm to 54mm should be the target list of scale ranges.

You can count on some battle reports, roster shots, and examples of game play coming out in my pre-lease schedule. I have a time table to stick to for this, and only released the overview to celebrate the 5th anniversary of rules development and test the conversational waters a bit.

I am well aware that the title is modern sounding, but, to put your mind at ease, my marketing efforts will communicate clearly that this is a useful product for each type of genre. It is a generic name, yes, but since regardless of setting, you command a strike force, I chose to stay close to what it delivers.

We have successfully play tested the following periods/genres – 1943 WWII (Period 3), 1499 Renaissance (Period 2), Napoleonics (Period 2), Cowboys/Old West (Period 3), Romans vs Gauls 99AD (Period 1), and even used Period 1 rules with Fantasy minis for Wood Elves vs Dark Elves, as well as Period 3 for Sci-fi Starship Crew vs. Biomorph aliens. It all works!

Ban Chao Inactive Member22 Apr 2011 1:27 p.m. PST

Nice idea but i must agree Strike force Commander is a very contempory name and to me does not scream Multi period game, when i first read it i thought Modern Warfare and i also agree that doing a few AAR of the different periods to show how it works would be good and might get peeps less or more skeptical. I hope it works for you ^^.>>>its all very well saying it all works but how do we know?..the proof is in the pudding and people need a taste..

Goldwyrm Inactive Member22 Apr 2011 1:30 p.m. PST

What I was referring to with "Ground Scale" is within the rules how far is 20 meters, 40 meters, 60 meters, or 300 meters on the tabletop?

Ban Chao Inactive Member22 Apr 2011 1:34 p.m. PST

also a strike force is >>noun 'A military force equipped and organized for sudden attack'…not all battles would be like that and is certainly not generic ^^

Patrice22 Apr 2011 2:03 p.m. PST

Basic skirmish rules can cover all periods – as there is no big difference between human beings of any period.

But I already have my own skirmish rules… ^^

nothereanymore Inactive Member22 Apr 2011 2:26 p.m. PST

It is skirmish. That means all periods work more or less the same, the differences can be done by using a few special rules. Hope it works the way intended. I am too overfed at the moment to try my hand at another set of rules.

Bob Faust of Strategic Elite Sponsoring Member of TMP22 Apr 2011 3:21 p.m. PST

@Goldwyrm – Ground scale is intentionally left undefined to exact measurements. The minute you start laying out exactly how far one inch is you get people hashing about realism, etc. to such a degree that it creates more room for arguments than play.

Since this is a game and not a simulation, or scientific recreation of reality, I've kept it close enough to reality to not be unbelievable, and playable enough to not bog down needlessly.

Let's just say that a modern handgun can fire clear across a 4' table top. Now the target is going to be really hard to hit, but we can all agree that a Glock doesn't have a 12" max range…so that side of realism has been achieved without formulaic conversions to real life.

@wodensraven – it is what it is when it comes to the name of the game. It's copyrighted and its not changing. I can appreciate that is sounds modern, but the first sci-fi/fantasy supplement is called Epic Heroes, and that doesn't sound modern to me at all. Additional period supplements will be properly themed.

@hwarang – your comment about being overfed is one of the driving ideas behind making a single ruleset that tailors to different periods and genres. You won't have to learn new rules to play different forces. Not having to learn so many different systems after 31 years of wargaming appeals to me greatly. I'm guessing I'm not alone in that thinking.

Great comments guys! Keep 'em coming!

Goldwyrm Inactive Member22 Apr 2011 3:30 p.m. PST

Thanks for the clarification.

Joe Legan Supporting Member of TMP22 Apr 2011 7:58 p.m. PST

Faust23
I have released a set a rules in the last 4 months so I think I know something of what you are going through.
People will be justifiably skeptical because everyone touts their idea is new and different. Everyones rules are "simple to learn yet difficult to master" and "low complexity yet high on flavor".
People want some specifics not generalities. At first I was afraid to mention anything for fear someone would rush out and steal my ideas. That didn't happen at all and after I explained some general concepts really got some folks interested. My rules have sold more than I dreamed of.
Your website currently really doesn't say anything of substance about your game. I think that is why no one commented at first.
Second, you say you want feedback yet you seem defensive about your system. For example, when the name was brought up you responded " It's copyrighted and it's not changing." Probably not the best answer if you want people to talk about your game and give you more feedback. If you are set on your system; fine. Don't ask for feedback. BTW I do agree with everyone elses comments about the name.
Hopefully you will not be too defensive about my comments. They are given in good faith. I bet you have a great system. These are my humble suggestions on how to get people interested in it. It worked for me anyway.

Good Luck

Joe

Bob Faust of Strategic Elite Sponsoring Member of TMP22 Apr 2011 11:24 p.m. PST

Thanks for your comments Joe. My remark regarding the name being copyrighted was not intended to sound defensive. More along the lines that the train has left the station and that since it took nine months for the copyright to clear, I'm pretty well stuck with it. So, while there might be a better name out there, I'm accepting the feedback and keeping it in mind for future releases of supplements etc.

Having copyrighted the material, I'm not concerned about releasing more of the rules, as I have legal recourse should something go awry. I doubt it would though. I merely shared the overview to see what people would think of the general concept.

My marketing plans will give appropriate teasers as we move closer to the release date. My minis blog was the only web offering I have set up currently. I'll have a separate SFC site up and running in a few months.

I appreciate your feedback, and am open to further commentary.

Thanks,
Bob

Bob Faust of Strategic Elite Sponsoring Member of TMP23 Apr 2011 8:51 p.m. PST

Ok, so I've received sufficient feedback about the name of the rules conjuring too modern an image to represent an 'all periods' system.

I did some research and changing the name won't be a big hiccup for copyright, so let's hear some ideas!

So, with that in mind, I'm curious, what would you call it?

firstvarty197923 Apr 2011 9:29 p.m. PST

I'd go with something generic since you're desire is to have it cover all periods of warfare. I thought "Band of Brothers" was a great name for the WWII book/movie. Since that's been used, maybe something along those lines.

Another thought is to use a very generic term, but translate it into another language? For example, "Skirmish Battles" translated into Latin is "Velitatio Pugna".

It'll get people to grab their Latin-to-English dictionaries at least! :)

Phil Dutre24 Apr 2011 2:09 a.m. PST

I read your blog post.

What confuses me indeed is the title + terminology. You're talking about 'sitreps' (situation reports) – that obviously is postWW2 terminology not easily associated with other historical periods. There might be other examples in your rules.

What I was also wondering: is it a game engine that happens to use toy soldiers as playing pieces – no matter what the historical period; or is it a set of rules that claims to recreate some feeling of a certain historical period? The problem with many 'all era' rulesets is that they are too often the first, and therefore cannot really make the claim that they can recreate any historical period in particular. E.g. you say that a Greek Spartan Hoplite fights very much in the same way as an English Medieval spearman. Perhaps that's true when the discussion comes down to on how to throw a spear – and then both behave the same as a modern-day athlete (perhaps ;-)). But that's very often not the determining factor in how warfare is conducted – social background and other societal factors such as training etc. are arguebly more important.

To illustrate the first point further: if you would replace chess pieces by historical figures from different eras, that doesn't make chess an 'all-era game'.

So, you might benefit from clearly stating what you have in mind, and not making claims that cannot really be justified. If you just want a gaming engine that allows you to play with toy soldiers from different eras – and nothing more – that is certainly a valuable goal in itself, and would strengthen you selling point. But at the same time claiming that various soldiers from different periods are basically all behaving the same – that's not very believable …

Patrice24 Apr 2011 5:00 a.m. PST

The name of the game, and the fact that the page on your blog has only pics of fantasy minis, does not at first give the impression of an all-periods historical game.

Technically, for a wargame with 3 20 miniatures as explained, you can do with the same basic things (movement, etc) for all periods and you have only to change weapons abilities. With 20 miniatures max. you don't really need to include the training drill as a military unit.

However, as has been said above, group training was very different in different historical periods and it is a big part of historical atmosphere. For this, you can add separate rules and suggestions for group behaviour in every different period… It is possible to do it but it is an awful lot of never-ending work my own rules "Argad!" works on this principle but are still improving… improving a bit each month… for years… :-)

Bob Faust of Strategic Elite Sponsoring Member of TMP24 Apr 2011 9:14 a.m. PST

@Phil, thanks for the feedback. You raise some interesting points. It would seem, though, you over simplified my description of what separates a Spartan from a medieval spearman. What I wrote was,

"A Spartan soldier in full kit fighting with his spear and shield is only truly different from a medieval English spearman in his training, experience, and fighting ability."

As you can see, I did acknowledge that, as you put it, "social background and other societal factors such as training etc. are arguably more important." I'm glad we agree.

Just curious what you thought about the game's name?

@Patrice – Good luck with your game. Mine took 5 years, and you're right, its never ending work! :) It's like a part time job some days. Except you don't want to quit!

I think you missed my Thirty Years' War mini pics, along with my Maximillian DBA army shots. I'll add my Romans on there, since they're dug into the archived posts. That'll help balance out the historical pics on the blog. Please keep in mind though, that the blog isn't the official game blog I'll be setting up soon.

What name would you suggest I use for the game?

Great feedback and discussion guys. Keep it a comin'.

Lions Den24 Apr 2011 10:51 a.m. PST

link

Change the name to "Skirmish Wargaming"

link

balticbattles24 Apr 2011 11:41 a.m. PST

Thinking on the name SFC, and trying to find something reflecting that for all eras, Squad Commander? Detachment Leader?

Reflecting on the theme of leaders at this level: Heroes and Cowards? Heroes and Zeros? First Command?

Calling it what it is: All era skirmish? Twenty Men?

Good luck! Better a product looking for a name than a name looking for a product…

Bob Faust of Strategic Elite Sponsoring Member of TMP24 Apr 2011 12:10 p.m. PST

@Highlandbevan – Love your last sentence! Too true!

@Lions Den – was the double link on purpose? If so, I get the hint (wink) :)

But you see, I have a personality disorder called Compulsive Originality. It compels me to not copy what someone else called something.

I wouldn't presume for a minute to put myself in Don Featherstone's camp of awesome. So, thanks, but I'll have to pass on Skirmish Wargaming as a title. :)

Tommiatkins Inactive Member24 Apr 2011 12:25 p.m. PST

I have to say i raise an eyebrow at one rules-all eras.
A Spartan hoplite differs froma Navy Seal in that navy seals dont fight shoulder to shoulder behind shields in well drilled phalanxes and their Kar-Ba is 16 foot shorter than a Spartans weapon!

I do like historical mismatches though. F14's vs Zero's and Tiger Tanks vs Currasiers.Good fun

Patrice24 Apr 2011 12:26 p.m. PST

link
Change the name to "Skirmish Wargaming"
Don't be cruel with us :-)
All of us wargamers pay allegiance to D. Featherstone's works.
We know that we must be humble, and do our best to find our own (but of course, lesser) paths to the True wargaming Truth, and honour our wargamer forefathers ;-)
@Patrice Good luck with your game. Mine took 5 years, and you're right, its never ending work! :) It's like a part time job some days. Except you don't want to quit!
Thanks! I agree First edition was 15 years ago. Good luck to you too.
What name would you suggest I use for the game?
Honestly, I have no idea. It's too personal. You must like it.

donlowry24 Apr 2011 2:20 p.m. PST

Ground scale is intentionally left undefined to exact measurements.

But the players have to have some kind of frame of reference. If my figure is 4" away from your figure, is that close, far, or somewhere in between?

Bob Faust of Strategic Elite Sponsoring Member of TMP24 Apr 2011 2:29 p.m. PST

@donlowry – Each weapon has an Effective Range. If you exceed that you're at Long range. If your weapon has an Effective Range longer than 20", and you shoot over 20", your shot is at Long Range. I took it all into account. That'll all make sense when you see those rules. That's why discussing scale at this point is not really making sense.

@Patrice – I agree that it's a personal thing, naming a game. I promise that I will like it, even if it changes.

Personal logo Extra Crispy Supporting Member of TMP25 Apr 2011 6:10 a.m. PST

Juts some quick notes…

It was my understanding that Titles themselves cannot be copyrighted.

I agree that an all-eras game is possible. Ed at Two Hour Wargames has done this. His base system covers horror, SciFi, WW2, Vietnam,, Fantasy, the Old West, Gladiators and more.

I think differences in weapons are alos often grossly over exaggerated. What matters is relative not absolute ratings. So weapon A may get 3 dice and weapon B may get 5. That may be sword vs. knife or LMG vs assault rifle.

For period specifics, I think people act and react much the same in every era. You get shot at, your natural inclination is to duck. Good troops fight back, crappy troops don't.

As for title suggestions….feel free to use any of these.

  • Skirmish!
  • At Knife's Point
  • Indispensible Men
  • Appointments With the Past
  • The Will to Win
  • Hard Favour'd Rage
  • The Brave Man But One
  • War: that mad game the world so loves to play
  • One Favorable Moment
  • No Substitute for Victory

Lions Den25 Apr 2011 7:34 a.m. PST

The first link was to "a look inside" on amazon. The second link was to the cover and order information. I wanted you to see the inside table of contents first because the more I read of your description the more it sounded like the Skirmish Wargame rules. I wanted you to see the cover because you would know where the book was available. Looks like amazon links go to nearly the same page…and the post looks like twig and berries…that part is not intentional but very funny.

Your notion of the skirmish game not being done successfully before assumes too much. I am not trying to be mean spirited but it has been done lots of ways.
@ Crispy very nice list.

add:
Venture Forth
Combat Chaos
Fighting Men
Heroes
Do or Die
and I vote for Will to Win from the above list.

Bob Faust of Strategic Elite Sponsoring Member of TMP25 Apr 2011 8:16 a.m. PST

@Lions Den – I wasn't saying skirmish games haven't been done well before. I was saying an 'all periods' game that captures the feel of each period hasn't been well represented within one rulebook.

Honestly, I've never read Featherstone's works. I'll go back and look at the TOC though, now that you've piqued my curiosity.

@Crispy – Always good to hear from you Sir! Titles can fall under the copyright of the material. Trademarks protect the title and logo. What I was referring to was that I didn't want to go back and reapply for a new copyright. Turns out I could change the name and that is just another form to submit. No big deal, actually.

Thanks to both you & Lions for the suggestions on name. I came up with one at easter dinner last night, but I'm still deciding whether I like it or not.

Still interested in what people have to say. So thanks to all for the feedback.

Lions Den26 Apr 2011 12:40 p.m. PST

oooooooh. Yyyyou mean yyyyou didn't take what I was saying and linking to as relelvent to your post about writing a new set of one size fits all skirmish rules.
I posted the TOC link so you would see.

Bob Faust of Strategic Elite Sponsoring Member of TMP26 Apr 2011 1:56 p.m. PST

Sorry Lions Den, no offense man. I never said I was bright! :)

Bob Faust of Strategic Elite Sponsoring Member of TMP26 Apr 2011 1:58 p.m. PST

So I see Featherstone covers several different period scenarios. Cool. I'll probably pick this book up and read it.

Thanks for the tip Lions Den. I wonder how often these rules get played these days.

Personal logo Ditto TwoThree Supporting Member of TMP26 Apr 2011 3:29 p.m. PST

It's copyrighted

How can you copyright a common term like "strike force" (which again, is incredibly modern, not even WWII, sounding)??

That's like copyrighting "platoon commander".

"SitRep" doesn't even remotely go with pre 20th century engagements I expect you'll claim that term is copyrighted too?

Sorry to sound negative I'm not a regular ancients player, myself, but I know if someone tried to convince me to buy a set of rules for WWII that was called "War Band" or "Cataphract" I would just balk and not give it a second glance.

Anyway, your site talks about how players choose a year and then "build their forces around the real soldiers of that time and location". You later go on about supply points, so this is a points based game. What about scenarios?

Good luck and all the best,
--
Tim

Bob Faust of Strategic Elite Sponsoring Member of TMP26 Apr 2011 6:51 p.m. PST

Wow Tim, I think you just gave me a drive by ass chewing…

I don't think you read the part where I explained that the 'game' was copyrighted, and I didn't want to go through that process again. So, please understand that I understand what I was referring to regarding name and copyright.

I see you are quick to criticize, but not offer alternative titles as some of these fine gentlemen have done. Perhaps a couple of helpful ideas would have blunted your 'negative' post.

For the sake of clarity, I'm not trying to 'convince' anyone to buy my game. And I've been in sales and marketing long enough to know that if a person gets hung up on one word or term, like SitRep,and doesn't see the larger vision of my product, well, they probably weren't really my kind of customer to begin with.

And finally, there are scenarios in the game. Why would having a points based system preclude that?

Have a good evening.

Bob

Lions Den26 Apr 2011 8:07 p.m. PST

I have used Skirmish Wargaming and my group use it for 54mm gaming. It is very old school. Writing turn orders for what you want to do per figure….not everyone's preferred format but their really isn't a more elegant way to get decisions that beat I go U go.

50 Dylan CDs and an Icepick Inactive Member26 Apr 2011 8:14 p.m. PST

"…when it comes to the name of the game, It's copyrighted and its not changing."

"I don't think you read the part where I explained that the 'game' was copyrighted, and I didn't want to go through that process again. So, please understand that I understand what I was referring to regarding name and copyright.."

I think you may be a bit confused. There is no necessary "process" for copyrighting a game, or anything else. Publication itself secures your copyright.

If I wrote up a game in the next 30 minutes, and put it on my website, it would be "Copyrighted," that very instant.

All the copyright law does is to protect you theoretically, at best from somebody who plagiarizes large segments of your exact words. It offers you no protection whatsoever against somebody who copies your game ideas and concepts and publishes them under different names

"Theoretical," since obviously the burden of proof and the expense of legal fees will be upon you, to sue the alleged plagiarizer. And the US copyright is particularly weak, since it allows for the exact copy of titles, and even short passages, verbatim.

This will hopefully clarify:

link

(Note that Sec. 201.1b means, essentially, that game systems can never be copyrighted. And of course Sec. 201.1a clarifies that titles can not be copyrighted.)

The US gov't is very clear that no copyright registration process is required… unless you're really planning to sue somebody in the future:

link

Bob Faust of Strategic Elite Sponsoring Member of TMP26 Apr 2011 8:57 p.m. PST

So do you have a suggestion on the name of the game?

50 Dylan CDs and an Icepick Inactive Member27 Apr 2011 4:35 a.m. PST

No, I don't care what anybody calls their game, but I just wanted to clear up the misunderstanding about Copyright.

Personal logo Ditto TwoThree Supporting Member of TMP27 Apr 2011 10:36 a.m. PST

I see you are quick to criticize, but not offer alternative titles as some of these fine gentlemen have done. Perhaps a couple of helpful ideas would have blunted your 'negative' post.

Bob, it was a negative post, but you did post "All comments and questions are welcome". I had negative observations. I assumed since you were asking for "All comments and questions are welcome" that things didn't need to be sugar coated with hugs from Barney the Purple Dinosaur. grin Come on now, with a career in sales and marketing, you should be able to take criticism! Do you ignore all negative comments in market testing?

In any event, as part of the post, I acknowledged and apologized for the negative comments and wished you all the best. And I still do! The concept sounds interesting and valid for small skirmish games. Though I do think it's silly thinking a name called "Strike Force" is copyrighted. evil grin I'll have to make sure the next battle report I put on my web site is entitled "Strike Force". Nah, I probably won't. grin

Why should I provide a title? These are your rules. You're the one presenting a product, and an appropriate name is your job, just like in writing a school or university paper it is your job to give an appropriate title to set the tone for your work. Similarly, if you have been involved in sales and marketing, you know that title, presentation and connotations of such are everything.

Strike force is a very appropriate title for post WWII, probably just fine for WWII, but in my opinion, it's out to lunch for earlier periods. Similarly, while I spent 10 years describing everything as a sitrep and began innumerable radio transmissions with "2 this is 2-1, sitrep…" and the term is as familiar to me as is the 24 hour clock, it's not appropriate for at least pre-20th century wargaming. You've listed WWII land as an interest so I'll ask something similar to what I said in my first post: would you not crinkle your brow if presented with a set of WWII rules called "Chariots and Legions"? Would you not crinkle your brow even more if the artillery phase was called "Catapults and Trebuchets"?

Again, good luck to you and don't get over sensitive, you'll just get angry and lose sight and benefit of what you asked for. If I didn't care, I would not have posted in the first place. I try to guide myself on TMP, at least since last September, by not posting if I think something is just too stupid for words. Obviously, while you may think I have that view here, I don't.
--
Tim

PS if you really want a title suggestion, mine would be "Blades to Bullets" as the title or "From Blades to Bullets" as a subtitle. Maybe "Stones to Bullets". IMHO, that sort of thing captures the concept of multi-periods.

Altius27 Apr 2011 11:27 a.m. PST

I've seen other attempts at one-size-fits-all rules covering multiple periods, and they never seem to work. They either have to be so encyclopedic in their approach that it's unwieldy to play, or they are so broad and generic that they lose all period flavor. Needless to say, this has made me skeptical. I honestly don't think it can be done adequately with a single rule book. The ground scale issue mentioned above doesn't bode well, and sounds like it's going to wind up in the "broad and generic" end of the pool.

But, I haven't seen the rules yet, so I could be wrong. These are just my instincts going in, and maybe you have managed to overcome those issues. The "sneak peek" doesn't really give me any information to go on. Instead, it just throws up red flags.

Why not explain how the mechanics of the game work? I'd love to see that, and that's really what will make me decide to buy a game or not. I won't spend money on something that's a mystery, and I suspect that there are others who feel the same. Since its new, why not toss out a scenario teaser with a few basic rules, that could show how the game easily switches gears from ancient to ultra modern? How about a discussion group with some of the playtesters giving their opinions? Stuff like that.

Not trying to trash your idea, dude. I'm just offering this as an honest, constructive criticism.

John Leahy Sponsoring Member of TMP27 Apr 2011 6:19 p.m. PST

That's why I suggested early on to either walk players through a couple of turns or provide a LITE version. There is nothing posted yet that would get me to think about making a purchase. I want to have a feel for the mechanics in use.

Thanks,

John

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