"Group vs Individual Basing" Topic

I've always been fascinated by how one bases 15-20mm troops for 20th century+ small unit wargaming (platoon or company at most per side).

Except for one of my friends I believe most gamers base 6mm troops in groups. And I don't think I've ever seen 25/28mm 20th century+ troops based in groups. So those figure sizes don't face these issues as much.

15-20mm troops fall into a weird basing border region. In a thread I started in the SF section lots of guys said they base 15mm troops individually. On the other hand, I know lots of folks base 20mm troops on 2-3 figure stands as seen in Command Decision.

Rules also run the gamut for basing options. The massively popular Flames of War (15mm figures) uses two sizes of stands with 2-5 figures per stand and nobody seems to have a problem with a 5-figure stand and 2-figure stand having the same fighting ability in close assault. Ambush Alley/FoF tracks individual soldier models for casualties but still works with 2-4 figures per base since figures fight in teams and squads (you just need to use casualty rings).

The challenge of course is that if you collect your troops at a 1:1 ratio but base in groups you lose some flexibility when changing rule systems. For example, that RPG gunner on a full fire team stand MUST maneuver with that team. If based individually it could operate on its own or with another figure for more flexibility.

Multi-figure basing also raises the challenge of "unit strength" if counting stands. A modern US fire team has 9 soldiers. Some modern Russian mech infantry has 6 dismounts. 3 and 2 stands of 3 figures each respectfully maintains the unit strength ratios. But US squads operate in two fire teams of 4. If based on two fire team stands of 3-4 figures and only counting stands (eg FoW) then both squads have the same unit strength! Which is better?

Basing 15s individually can be fiddly for some, especially older and very young gamers. Add in uneven terrain and it's easy for individually based troops to topple over while multi-figure bases remain stable. And if you're playing with reinforced platoons you could easily have 40+ tiny playing pieces PER SIDE to handle. That's a lot of playing pieces. Trying to see which 15mm figure has the M203 can also be difficult for gamers who enjoy that level of detail.

If using multi-figure basing one potential solution is to treat bases abstractly as full squads. That way you don't need to get picky about individual weapons. But I believe many of us 20th century+ gamers enjoy lower level actions in which the collection is 1:1 even if only teams of soldiers are considered by the rules (eg FoW).

So what are your thoughts on group vs individual basing for 20th century+ small unit actions using 15-20mm figures?

What sort of challenges have you faced, if any, when switching rule systems and using group basing?

Any regrets as to how you based your troops or have you rebased at any time?

ONE MORE ITEM:

A good test case for this topic is a typical modern US platoon. If using group basing how would you base it? If individual basing is this too many figures, especially for 15mm collections?

- PLT HQ: LT, RATELO, Plt. Sgt.

- 3x SQUADS: SL, 4x Rifles, 2x M203, 2x SAW

- 1x WEAPONS SQUAD: SL, 2x M240, 2x AT4, 4x Rifles

My solution for 20mm gaming is to base in pairs with the odd squad leader figure added to a base. Instead of 39 figures to handle that's only 17 stands of 2-3 figures each. This also maintains an excellent relative unit strength when counting stands.

1x PL Stand
6x Assault Rifle Stands w/GL
6x SAW Stands
2x GPMG Stands
2x ATRL Stands

For my 15mm collection I once followed FoW…the rifle squads each had 2x 4-man stands (fire teams) while the weapons squad had 4x 2-man stands. SL figures were added to various stands as needed. The Plt. HQ was its own stand. Total of 11 stands. Only down side is that the weapons squad gets over-represented numerically.

1x PL Stand
6x Fire Team Stands
2x GPMG Stands
2x ATRL Stands

I've long planned, and what I'm trying to accomplish with 15mm sci-fi forces, is flexible basing. I base my 15mm individually on steel washers, and then I plan to get magnetic bases so the models will 'stick'- that way I can have the minis individually or group based without need to change anything.

-Will

I base my 15mm stuff in groups, usually fireteam sized of between 3 and 4 figures. My 20mm stuff is individually based.

Then again a lot of basing is dictated by the rules you use.

I only base my WW2 figures on multi-figure stands (typically 4 figures per stand). I use 25mm figures, and the stands represent squads, platoons, or companies, depending on the level of game I'm playing. Personally, I don't like single figure basing at all…but I realize that's my personal preference. I don't like the look, and I don't like moving each figure individually. Maybe I'm just lazy……

I have enough of a 15mm collection now that I'm going to do some of both… the minis that I use for FUBAR, Forge of War, Mutants and Death Ray Guns, etc. are based on pennies or 3/4" fender washers. The minis I know I'll only use for Alien Squad Leader I've just based directly on 50mm squares. A few units that I want to use both I made these:

link

I should post an update to that entry… the finished product looks pretty good.

Chris

For My 1/285th FOF US Stryker INF Platoon
HQS
1st stand Platoon Leader,RTO,Plt sgt total 3 figures
2nd stand FO, RTO 2 figures
3rd stand Medic 1 figure

1ST Squad
Alpha team Stand TLw/M4,Grenadier w/M4-203UGL,Saw Gunner wM249 or current model. Asst Saw w/M4 Total 4 Figures

Bravo Team stand Sqd Ldr w/M4, TL w/m4, Grenadier w/M4-203,
Saw gunner w/m249, Asst Saw w/M4

2ND and 3RD Squads as above
Weapons Squad
Hqs stand SL w/M4, RTO total 2 figures
1st Gun team stand Gunner w/M60/240 ,Loader total 2 figures
2nd Gun team as above
Optional anti armour stands x 2 @ with Javelin and gunner
Counting the Vehicle crews its about 53 personel way over strenth with all optional stands included..I use markers to keep track of casualties but im also making up actual stands to refelct this as well..

I'm wrestling with this question myself. I have all of my 15mm stuff based on multiple bases, because I've been using them for either CWC or AK-47. Flat out, I will NOT rebase my stuff. I worked too hard on the groundwork and made it too pretty to tear it down just because a new rule set comes along. But, rather than rebasing the whole bunch or creating a whole new individually-based army, I was thinking that I could use these multiple bases to represent the bulk of the troops and just get a handful of individually-based figures to augment them. So, for example, a guy with a specialized weapon like an LMG, grenade launcher or RPG could be on a base by himself, and all the riflemen could be on multiple bases.

I could also use them sort of like change. For example, a squad might be made up of two big stands of 4 riflemen, a smaller stand with an LMG team, and a single stand for the RPG and maybe the squad leader. Let's say the squad takes some hits or splits up. I could take away one of the multiple stands and replace it with a number of individuals. It's still cheaper than rebasing the whole lot because I'd only have to buy a few packs to base individually.

Haven't we just had this discussion?

Most of my 15s and 20s are based in groups, apart from:

i) two lonely platoons of 1:1 based 20mm Brits & Germans
ii) my original 'Battle' airfix armies, individually based at roughly 1:3, and still in their original storage boxes from the 1970s.

The rest of them are based with intention of being able to use them for anything from 1:1 skirmishy type games up to 1 base = 1 brigade grand operational type games.

Their base organisations are period appropriate tactical groups, so sections for WW1, teams/weapons groups for WW2 & moderns as per WRG 1925-50 and 1950-85. Usually three figs for rifle/SMG groups, two figs for LMGs, light support weapons etc and some individual figures for leader, snipers etc. Heavy weapons are weapon plus crew.

Exceptions:

i) 20mm WW1 figs who have two figs for rifle sections, but platoons are generally quite large so they still have enough figures.

ii) 15mm Ultra modern western forces also usually only have two figs per base so I can do the various combos of infantry weapons, SAWs etc. I can do fireteams as a sineg lapir of figures, or if I need the detail then I group two pairs for a team of four.

iii) 20mm WW2 stuff is mainly based for Megablitz now, so base elements are battalions. 15mm WW2 still uses the team convention.

I just go up/down the game scale by combining bases appropriately and having stocks of the relevant extra bits needed (mainly higher level assets for more grandiose games). So for a 1:1 type game (say IABSM or Arc of Fire) I would do a rifle section as a couple of rifle bases, an LMG team and a section leader figure, whereas for a battalion level game my teams suddenly become platoons, and I mix in the battalion MG, mortar, AT and pioneer platoons plus appropriate transport. Corps level they become battalions or brigades.

This scheme allows me to get the maximum amount of play out of the minimum amount if toys without any rebasing. Well, I do live in Yorkshire.

Depends on the gaming scale – are you playing 1:1 or higher scale?

In my experience most 15mm and below games are no 1:1, so a 3-4 man "fire-team" stand is typically a squad or platoon or whatever. (Incidentally, if you want to base singly use a copper coin as a base- a british 1p coin is excellent for this.

28mm is almost always 1:1 so it is individual figures

20mm can go either way but for 20 years I've based 2 men on 1" square bases (MMG/HMG/Mortar on 2" square) or 12 x 2" for lying down gusy (typically LMG) – 1:1 scale its a buddy team, or you can group two into a fireteam, or 1 square = 1 squad etc etc.

Multi-figure basing also raises the challenge of "unit strength" if counting stands. A modern US fire team has 9 soldiers. Some modern Russian mech infantry has 6 dismounts. 3 and 2 stands of 3 figures each respectfully maintains the unit strength ratios. But US squads operate in two fire teams of 4. If based on two fire team stands of 3-4 figures and only counting stands (eg FoW) then both squads have the same unit strength! Which is better?

I think I'm missing something – you say US fireteams have nine men, then four. Anyway, A simple answer would be to say that a single maneouvre element ("squad", "team", "mob", whatever) is one base, but then a squad element with more men has a higher firepower rating. In simplest terms, a base representing four men gets four shots, one representing six men has six shots.

You can also tinker with morale ratings, wounds and whatnot to further represent the larger number of men.

In 28mm, I prefer individual basing, since group bases start to get cumbersome and don't fit in places. 15mm is a bit of a grey area, and it depends on the rules in question.

Andrew,

That was a typo. US squads have 9 men organized into two fire teams of 4 plus the squad leader. A Russian mech squad has 6 men including the squad leader but don't have formal fire teams.

So that's 9 vs 6 soldiers which might be based as:

- 1 Stand (each stand is a squad of 6-9 men)

- 2 Stands (each stand is 3-4 men and conforms to the US fire team organization)

- 3 Stands (each stand is 3 men to better represent the relative numerical strength but it violates the US fire team organization)

- US/4 or CIS/3 Stands (each stand is 2 men except for one US stand gets the SL figure…you still get American Fire Team and even buddy team organization and relative numerical strength is pretty good)

All of my 25/28mm stuff is individually based and my basic unit is the team of 2-4 figures.

For 15/20mm stuff I find myself moving to 2-3 figures per stand for platoon level gaming.

A friend of mine convinced me to get into 15mm scifi due to the cost, bigger battlefields, and the recent explosion in availability. My only stipulation was that I won't base figures in groups. Personally I think 15mm looks better in single bases and I don't want to play games that require multiple 15mm figs to mount on single bases. Reduces the cost savings that helped lure me to this scale.

I am guilty of basing 15mm WWII stuff individually on 9/16" washers. I put magnets on larger bases so I can use them both ways.

I do both team bases and individuals for 15mm, and I started gaming in 28mm with single-based minis.

If I was playing something like Flames of War-Modern, I'd base the US squad 5+4, and probably base the CIS guys 3+3 (on small bases). It really depends on the intended scale of the game, though.

For a platoon-per-side game like Force on Force, I'd base individually and call it good. For a company+ per side game like FoW, I'd base in teams.

I just bought a US Armored Cavalry platoon from QRF, and I am going to have one platoon of US infantry single-based and the rest multi-based.

20mm -- individuals.

Tim,

I too like Crossfire. I also like what Lloyd did by bringing it down one level. A squad leader replaces the platoon leader from the official rules and a squad of 2-4 stands replaces the official platoon of 3-4 stands. Works perfectly for moderns.

link

All of my 20mm is either individual or in pairs , heavy weapons based crews all on one base, arty crews and AT guns attached to base also.

cheers
Matt

I'm with quidveritas. Base on metal washers or similar and using magnetic movement stands as necessary. Works like a charm.

Another vote for magnetic stands.

You can eat your cake and have it too.

link

Your figures can pull double duty and changing rules were base sizes are a issue is not that big of a deal.

Michael in Abbotsford.

My 15mm figures are based in 2's or 3's which is fine for playing games where a base = squad or platoon. I'm planning to add a number of individually based figures for 1:1 games though.

In 20mm all individual, except mortars, gun groups etc. This allows for troops crossing fields/open ground to be in line, arrowhead etc, in file, single file along roads and tracks etc, rather than a clump!

Tally Ho!

20mm individuals on uk 1p pieces and crewed weapons on 2p or biscuit "tin" cut to shape.

My 20mm figures are mostly in groups – 3 figures on a 30mm square base for squads, two or three on a 30x40 base for support weapons. I have some spare singles for those rules where you need to count figures.
Commanders are all on circular bases – single figures (on a 1p) for platoon, 2 on a 2p for company, 3 on a larger circle for battalion.

One issue we really haven't addressed directly is squad and platoon level special weapons such as M203s, SAWs, AT4s, M240s, etc.

In smaller scales these can be tough to distinguish. For example FOW abstracts weapons such as Brens, BARs, and MG34s into the platoon's aggregate firepower but does ID bazookas and fausts specifically with special stands. Others games even abstract SAWs and AT4s but use individual basing!

One downside to group basing is the flexible use of figures armed with these special weapons. I've also found it easier to build collections at a strict 1:1 figure and equipment ratio and then abstract up when playing games such as one stand equals a platoon (rather than the other way around.)

Tim,

Do you make a distinction beteween PzGrens with two MGs and regular German squads with one?

One reason I enjoy battalion level games where one stand is a platoon is the level of abstraction possible vs figures. As I move down the chain of command I find myself wanting a little more contrast between troops.

As for Lloyd not using pins, I agree with you. I prefer rules focused on morale…find, fix, flank, finish!

I prefer individual troops for modern play. That way I can say, "OFM, Kyote, Cover me. I'm gonna slip around to the left." I do mount crew served weapons as a unit tho.
Weaselhoffen.