"POLL REQUEST: Yes or No to the restricted Marketplace" Topic

Hi Everyone,

I would like to request that we have a poll on the new restriction placed on Marketplace posting. Personally I think that having the Marketplace as a separate part of the message boards is a great idea, but I am uncomfortable with posting on it being limited to Supporting Members.

Could we have a poll on whether or not Basic Members should be able to post to the Marketplace?

Thanks!
James 'Ivan' Hughes

since the market place is a commercial endeavor, I see no problem with restricting it to supporting members.

I also think that having to "pay to play" is fair and acceptable. After all, the seller stands to profit...

What do you folks think of this compromise:

Supporting members may start a new post. Anyone may respond (presumably with questions, etc.).

I disagree. Folks that come here may support in oyther ways. They may be buying from advertisers here. I think that becoming a little exclusionary doesn't do anything o enhance the TMP experience (no offence to Bill intended).

Thanks,

John

I look at Supporting Membership as a totally voluntary effort to support TMP as a whole. At least that's why I joined. I have no problem with anyone, Supporting or not, posting on the Marketplace.

Allen

I think it will cut down the annoying crossposts that usually accompany the Marketplace ads.

we come to look and hear news an post comments ...For all of this we get it for FREE . If you wish to use TMP so you can make a profit and use the fan base that TMP ( through Bill's hard work) has. You should pay. Where else are you going to find such a targeted group

I support the current policy.

oh well, I guess my money isn't good enough for the supporting members. I saw this sort of thing coming when people started paying for membership priviliges. Maybe the basic members ought to go on a boycott. Remember, there are more of us than there is of them. Sad really, but that's the way it goes.

I agree supporting members only. There are other places where you can advertise for FREE.

TMP is not a bring and buy.

:)

A poll? you mean non-supporting members are still allowed to participate in polls? I figure that won't last for long. Personally I don't think anybody is making a "profit" off of posting auction items. I think it is more of a way for people to inform others of items that they are getting rid of. In case somebody may be looking for them. Limiting this or any other areas of TMP is silly and only diminishes the TMP experience for all of us. But it is not my website so I guess my opinion is just that.

Though I'm a supporting member, I never have sold or bought anything through TMP. However, if you want to make a profit or have some hobby money returned to your pocket I fail to see the point why you shouldn't pay something for the privelige of the MArket Place (since this has little or nothing to do with TMP's other purely informational services). Other TMP services are free of charge and it is certainly due to this that the market place is so well viewed. Is everybody who complains about this working for their bosses for free? I guess not...

How whiney can you get?! Pouting and foot stamping on a message board is not a very edifying sight. I am a supporting member because I see the value of what is being provided for me FREE if I do not want to pay.

I think it's exactly right and fair that Bill continue with the present policy. If you post stuff on E-bay, you pay. Why not here, too? And please spare us the "slippery slope" rhetoric-- I don't buy that crap at all! I'm sure this isn't the presage to more functions of TMP being only for supporting members.

I am a supporting member because I want to help support TMP.

I have bought stuff from TMP members on a couple of occasions. Market Place is not the primary reason I come to TMP.

I'm not sure what is to be gained or lost by making Market Place only open to Supporting members. Maybe instead those who wished to sell on Market Place could pay a small fee for a yearly "sales space"?

I think for someone to make money out of anothers hard work should be paid for.Afterall membership isn't alot of money.If your too tight to support something you use and want to make money out of,then you don't deserve the right.

Excuse my ignorance. But has something changed recently?
If your not a paying member you can't POST to any marketplace board? And if so, can you still read the marketplace board postings, or is that restricted also? Thanks.

Walt

Lets look at the facts, shall we?

A)Supporting members can post to the marketplace boards. Whats this give you? A very large target audience.
TMP is not a place to sell, but more on information. Bi'lls given us a chance to sell to this target audience, aside from Ebay. You pay on ebay, you can pay here. Don't want to pay? Go to bartertown or any other free spot to sell your stuff.

B)Even if you're not a supporting member, you can still read it and respond to the people selling via email. If you can't afford $1-$2 a month, then don't post your sales here. Is this elitism? Not at all. TMP is first and foremost a place to get information. The ability to perhaps make money from it (And its huge audience base) is a perk, not a right.

Its a non issue. Its a membership. When you go to gym you can't use it unless you have a membership. You can't rent movies unless you have a membership card. Don't like it? Check out any of the other free places to buy and sell.

I think it is a small price to pay for the exposure that you get. Where else can you reach your targeted market for 2.50 a month? Bill deserves whatever he gets because this is mostly a labor of love not a profit making endevour...BILL

It's a weird internet quirk that people consider private enterprises to be democracies.

Try walking into the post office and sticking your own sign in the window without paying for it.

This is Bills window, if he wants to charge for it he can and quite frankly no-one else's opinion matters a jot.

Obviously, a supporting member scheme is pointless if it costs Bill more effort than it returns monetary profit.

How about the term "loss leader". A few "free" services attract/increase site visitors. The visitor numbers then attract advertisers who in effect pay for the site.

Notice that the majority of those that say that the marketplace should be supporting members only are supporting members? Go figure

I understand both sides of the fence. But paying to post a sale or auction here... what do I get. You pay for Ebay that is correct. What do I get on Ebay though? I can host pics, I have a notification, bid tracking, sales confirmation, a checkout feature, means to communicate with the buyer, and a rating that all buyers can see whether or not I am reliable. What do I get here? A header that is only on the front page 72 hours. For those arguing its Bill site your absolutley right it is, but you support it. What would it be without the information, news, assitance, or what not that all members supporting or not contribute? Not much probably. Why should YOU lose out on any good deals because some dont, cant, or wont support? Any ill feelings, No, I wish Bill the best but chances areI will no longer support this marketplace unless its with someone I had previously had a good transaction with.

I'm in favor of the commercial end paying for it's presence... but I guess I would want a seperate, free area for people that just wanted to trade... with no money involved.
It's not that much of a service to me when sellers come here to point out their Ebay auctions... I mean, I've got my searches running on Ebay for stuff I want and I go there and poke around frequently enough that I'm not gonna miss much... the real service is extra ad space for them... and that should be paid for... if only to keep down the clutter.

'WHO just wanted to trade'... my bad grammer...

"Maybe the basic members ought to go on a boycott"

Give me a break. Anyone calling for a boycott should do so, just so the rest of us won't have to see stupid comments like this anymore.

I'm not a paid member and I'm in favour of the current policy. While it would be nice to be able to post questions like James Shields suggested, as long as the Marketplace posts contain relevant contact info, I'll gladly send an email off instead.

Given that Al Gore, NOT Bill Armintrout, created The Miniatures Page, I find it appalling that Bill is trying to profit off of this site.

Personally, I think I the enjoyment I get from this web site is worth the membership fee. For me it's money well spent. I can respect the fact that others do not feel the same way.

What I can't begin to understand is the people who feel the entire site should remain free. As others have said, go to Bartertown and list your stuff there if you can't afford the membership fee.

Bill has a right to make money off of this site and as long as I feel I'm getting my money's worth, it wouldn't bother me one bit if he made a LOT of money from it. He does the work and he deserves to profit from it. I get the feeling that some people would be offended if Bill (or anyone else in the hobby) actually made a good living from the hobby.

The gentleman that owns and runs this site can do whatever he wants. Whichever policy direction is chosen only time will tell if it is a correct choice.

Personally, I do my online purchasing on Ebay where it is tracked and all official, with bells and whistles like DoomOnYou72 states. I would vote (if it mattered) for the Market Place to be viewed only by Supporting Members. As a basic member, no more having to scroll past 10 topics on the main page from the same poster on what he's selling :-)

@DoomOnYou72- Are you J.S. from NJ?- If so, It's Imperial Guard/Tyranid/Ork/Eldar/Squats Mike from the old 2nd ed. 40k days, how you doing?

Well I have posted things I thought people would be interrested in getting off of ebay before but if it goes must pay to post oh well, I wont post. Besides ebay and paypal eat enough of my money up without having to pay a fee here as well. Kinda like the old commercials for FREE INTERNET by Juno and NetZero, now you pay for those as well, thats why I dropped them like a rock in the lake. If I pay its gonna be for something I know I am getting a return on, posting stuff in the market place is not a gaurantee that I make a sale or get anyone to look at my goodies for sale on ebay, its just another way of taking the individual for a money ride.

Gotta agree with the "It's Bill's Site" group, since it is a verifiable fact:) He can control the forums as he sees fit.

If you don't want to pay, then don't expect to be able to interact on the forums restricted to paying members. I liken it to the airport lounge reserved for first class passengers.

If you're like me and don't pay for a perk, don't begrudge that perk to those who do. On that same train of thought though, no one is forcing you to trade or purchase from those in the marketplace. If and until I pay for the privilege to post there, I won't be using those areas period.

I think the market boards ought to be for community members. People who are going to hang around and participate, answer posts, and be part of the group, not just fly-by-night Ebay sellers who only use this site to post ads.

Maybe instead of being a paid member, there ought to be a restriction on how long you've been posting here. That will prevent a lot of people just showing up to post a few ads and then vanishing.

However, if Bill wants to restrict it to community members who feel like they want to belong enough to pay him, then I'm fine with it. I never liked all the advertising to begin with.

Goldwyrm, sorry thats not me.

I don't see a problem. I'ts not like you can't still email the person and buy whatever item it is you want, and i think its fair that if you want to make some money using the site you should support the site. But in the end only one opinion matters so there should really be no poll about this.

I am a non-supporting member and I think if you want to sell something on this site then Bill has a right to charge you for the sales space. From what I have read and seen there isn't any major plan to go "PAY" on this site, but if there is a profit or money made by the seller then something should be donated back to this community oriented site. perhaps that is just my young idealism being exposed.

@DoomOnYou72- Thanks anyway.

I was going to be a supporting member, but I spent the money on minis! :P I don't have a problem with the current policy. Just one question, if I am looking for a particular item may post that request? On the correct subject board, of course, not the marketplace board. I think this is how this thread got started. Am I on track, Ivan DBA? hetzer

I don't sell, though i have bought here.

I wonder would it be better to have supporting members post only, while everyone can view?

Of course, however Bill wants to do it is correct!

Er, I just realized, non-payers CAN view the board... how embarrassing. It's just under the marketplace link and of course, i never read the whole of Bill's explanation when he announced it.

I see that non-payers can still post. Wouldn't it be easier on Bill to just allow supporting mambers to post? Then again, that would make it harder to ask for clarification or to make a query if in the possibly not too unusual situation where a poster gives a wrong address! 8)

Given that this is Bill's site, I would argue that the best way to evaluate the restriction of Marketplace posting is to see how this new policy affects his revenue stream. Lacking any data on the issue, I would guess that the ability to start new topics in the marketplace would not significntly encourage anyone to become a supporting member. On the other hand, I also doubt that the restrictive policy will significantly lessen the trafic that this site recieves.

The result of this analysis, based entirely upon conjecture, is that for cashflow, such a marketplace policy will likely be irrelevant. Assuming an inherantly conservative point of view (if it is not broken, do not fix it), there consequently must be non-fiscal reasons for Bill's actions. Not being involved in this community in any capacity greater than that of a lurker, I am not in a position to discern what such reasons might be, but I am certain that Bill has benificent motives.

With regard to 'slipery slope' arguments, such an assertion is not consistant logically unless there is some reason to believe that the alledged sequece of events will take place (ie past history). Noting the absence of any evidence of past progressions in Bill's policy, I would conclude that there is no appreciable danger of a 'slipery slope' being realized.

Concerning the charges of ethical impropriety on the part of the Editor for implimenting the policy at hand, Bill, having in addition to other factors 'mixed his labor' with the material making up the website, possesses ownership over the site and therefore may do with it as he wishes within the constraints of the law. Because charging for clasified services rendered via the internet is legal, any ethically-based accusations against the Editor are utterly frivolous.

As someone who has posted "for sale" messages on TMP, I agree that Bill should get a piece of the action. I've done a direct sale or two but I have no idea how many of the people who bought my Dark Future minis were TMP members. However, I have noticed that when I did post the announcements here, the amount of hits went way up.

What's unfortunate is that I have a pair of resin buildings that I was going to auction (with the "look at this" post and then Bill changed the rules. Which means the other unfortunate occurance is that I spent my PayPal money on such frivolous things as my hobby before I sent off that $25 I planned on sending to Bill so I could sport some nifty stars. Actually that's not true. My son made the comment, "you're on there a lot" and so I figured I should probably pay for my share of the bandwidth ;0)

I know! I'll have a TMP benefit sale - if I make $25 off those buildings the proceeds will go to TMP (and I'll become an official supporter). :0) Note: this is not really an illegal/unethical auction announcement. Nor is it an attempt to skirt the rules while the Editor is taking a break - there's no auction for those items from me yet. I'll either pay my $25 and post or auction and then pay the $25.

Wyatt

Want to play...then you should expect to PAY.

I`m going to become a supporting member here also, so I`m all for it...we gamers are to cheap at times, and when it comes down to it, people that make coolios for us to enjoy DO deserve to get some money for their efforts.

;)

BME

MarcShefelton said: "Notice that the majority of those that say that the marketplace should be supporting members only are supporting members? Go figure."

Even when you posted this it was wrong! The majority of NON-members were (and are) in favor of it. And should be...

The question that the supporting members (and as such Bill the Editor) should be asking, is "Are we losing out on deals that we would be interested in purchasing by limiting the basic memebers?". How many of those ebay/foresale posts where from supporting memebers in the first place and how interested are the supporting members in buying items from posts here on TMP? If the answer is that most of the supporting members do buy items because of posts here on TMP, then limiting who can post on the market is ackin to shooting your selves in the foot before starting a foot race.

Is the marketplace there to allow the supporting members to sell something? Or is the market place there for the supporting memebers to buy something? As that right now, it is limited to the supporting members, they should decide. But what they should decide should not be based on who should or should not pay, but on what job they are trying to have the Marketplace do. Is it a forum to make money for supporting members (as it is now) or is it a place for members to find items to purchase? What exactly is the Marketplace's function supposed to be (besides getting rid of all the sellers cross posts ).

Personally, I don't care one way or the other, I've never bought anything because of a post on the TMP board, and I am unlikely ever to do so.

I won't belabor the point, but Bill's policy actually holds his guests to a higher standard than the manufacturers. If GW (just an example, no axe to grind) wants to post a press release, Bill gets it in. They aren't advertisers. As far as I know none of its reps are supporting members.

If I ever want to advertise something in the marketplace, I'll just dummy up a press release instead. :-)

LF

I can see it now: As part of our pre-announcement Game and Minis Line Announcement, Sock Puppet Wargames is selling off some of their extra wargaming stuff.

These items are not Sock Puppet minis or games but were used by the staff as stand-in items during the development phase of our lines. A lot of these items are used and have been primed or painted, etc. and some are still MIP, having never been freed from their packaging.

Contact Joe at Joe@yahoo.com (company rep for Sock Puppet Wargames) for details ;)

If you think that being able to post ads is the only reason to become a supporting member then you probably shouldn't. The amazing amount of information and ideas that pass on this site is incredible. If this doesn't mean $25 worth to you then you arent really into this hobby as much as you think you are. Or you could be one of those people who always want something for nothing.

Bill runs this site, pays for it and has all the rights as far as decisions are made. So until TMP goes public a poll would be pointless.

I agree that Bill owns the site and a poll is pointless. Why don't we vote on what Bill's going to get for take-out while we're at it. I was also just joking about trying to be sneaky about posting ads.

On a couple of other points, just because somebody doesn't pay to access TMP it doesn't mean they are not INTO the hobby. And up until the point that Bill set up a way to accept payments/donations, all of us were in the same boat of getting something for nothing.