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"British Armoured Car - Ostfront?" Topic


26 Posts

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1,575 hits since 15 Apr 2011
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Comments or corrections?

Porkmann15 Apr 2011 2:15 a.m. PST

link

As stated in the posting, I am no Brit kit expert. However this is an interesting image!

Any help in attribution is welcome.

Thanks.

Plynkes Inactive Member15 Apr 2011 2:43 a.m. PST

There was a 'big brother' to the Daimler Dingo: the Humber Scout Car.

But I'm not sure if that is one, looking at it.

NigelM Inactive Member15 Apr 2011 2:45 a.m. PST

I thought Humber Scout at first but not so sure now. Daimler Armoured Car with turret removed?

Porkmann15 Apr 2011 2:51 a.m. PST

Snap Plynkes, I was looking at the picture again and came to the same thing but I really have no idea!

Is it not a bit big to be a Daimler NigelM? I thought they were tiny vehicles – perhaps I am wrong (again)

I am paying the price for paying so little attention to British armour! :-)

Martin Rapier15 Apr 2011 3:01 a.m. PST

The Daimler Dingo is small, the Daimler A/C isn't.

manchesterreg Inactive Member15 Apr 2011 3:01 a.m. PST

Its a Humber,not a Humber MK11 think they came in around 1942,

link

Porkmann15 Apr 2011 3:09 a.m. PST

Thanks Manchesterreg looks plausible.

When did the Humber I start production? I am drawing a blank here!

Just found it – 1941!

So, as I suspected this may well be in North Africa rather than Russia. Damn documentary makers!

manchesterreg Inactive Member15 Apr 2011 3:17 a.m. PST

Id say North Africa,if only because of the road marker :)

Porkmann15 Apr 2011 3:29 a.m. PST

They are "tarts" get you all excited then leave you in the lurch. :-)

I will have to dig out the photo I have of an enormous artillery piece sitting in a Russian goodsyard. That is certainly something weird.

Personal logo Doms Decals Sponsoring Member of TMP15 Apr 2011 4:30 a.m. PST

Not sure that's British at all I'm wondering if it could be a de-turreted Panhard 178, looking particularly at the shape of the mudguards and wheel arch profile. Also that appears to be a hatch partially propped open for ventilation on the right hand side? The Panhard has rear-opening hatch in that position, but reversing it to allow for that seems a pretty easy modification. (As an aside I don't think Panhards were used in north Africa, but a good couple of hundred served on the eastern front….)

Personal logo Doms Decals Sponsoring Member of TMP15 Apr 2011 4:36 a.m. PST

Humber Mk.I rear view; definitely not a match as far as I can see:

link

Panhard rear quarter; the general profile looks good, and looking at the close-up of your photo, the stamped diagonal crosses on the rear mud guards appear to be there. Also the bits sticking out either side of the hull at the very bottom rear look a match? hard to be sure with the amount of clutter obscuring the back of the "mystery" one, but I'm inclined to think it is….

picture

Porkmann15 Apr 2011 5:30 a.m. PST

The mystery deepens!

Thanks for that Dom.

Another Account Deleted Inactive Member15 Apr 2011 5:41 a.m. PST

I'm thinking Panhard too because of the faint "X"s you can see on the corner panels.

I am no expert and I didn't stay at a Holiday Inn last night… :)

manchesterreg Inactive Member15 Apr 2011 5:53 a.m. PST

Not sure,the rear deck doesnt look as long as a Panhard? Saying that i dont think now, that it is a Humber either.

GOTHIC LINE MINIATURES15 Apr 2011 5:55 a.m. PST

In my opinion it looks more like a Panhard,the wheels are very high,mudguards look like the Panhard ones too.

Personal logo Doms Decals Sponsoring Member of TMP15 Apr 2011 6:10 a.m. PST

Not sure,the rear deck doesnt look as long as a Panhard?

I think that may just be the effect of the camera angle; it makes the mudguards look like they run up against the rear hull, rather than sticking out from it, thus giving the impression that the engine deck's shorter than it is. Also look at the rather "domed" wheel hubs; definitely more Panhard than Humber.

Admiral Yi Sun Sin is my Homie15 Apr 2011 6:43 a.m. PST

On first glance I would assume NA, especially western Libya. It could be the quality or lack thereof causing me to think that. Looking at the vehicle I'm thinking modified Panhard thanks to Dom. Here's another grainy picture for fun, not of the same vehicle of course:
picture

Looking more at the picture in question, with the "horse, mule, donkey, ass" head (which appears to be the object the riders are looking at, dinner?) and the bit of a car off on the left in the picture I doubt it's Kursk so maybe it's in the Kuban region? Not the mountainous part of course. There are areas with short grass/no grass in those parts. Also, that's not a lot of dust/sand being kicked up, btw.

Or it could be early in the invasion:
link Check out the road and telephone pole, they did build up some roads and they did have telephone poles in Russia. grin

Porkmann15 Apr 2011 8:00 a.m. PST

The Panhard theory would be more orthodox for Russia but the vehicle looks a bit "beefier". Perhaps a panhard sans turret is possible…

pink panzer Inactive Member15 Apr 2011 8:15 a.m. PST

Looks like a Panhard 178 to me.

Porkmann15 Apr 2011 10:30 a.m. PST

link

I have run a little follow up that may prove useful – thanks for all the suggestions gentlemen!

Any more ideas are most welcome.

donlowry15 Apr 2011 10:43 a.m. PST

Italian Sahariana?

Personal logo Doms Decals Sponsoring Member of TMP15 Apr 2011 11:34 a.m. PST

I think we have it; as for removing the turret, it wasn't a very widespread practice with the Germans, but was common on British vehicles (chiefly Stuarts and Daimler armoured cars) later in the war, as in a recce role a low profile was often viewed as more useful than a turreted pop-gun the same logic could easily apply, or it could conceivably be a CO's runabout.

(It also may have never had a turret, as a number were captured without them, chiefly those intended for the 47mm turret, of which only 2 were manufactured by May 1940. Adopting them as "scout cars" in British parlance wouldn't seem odd….)

Jemima Fawr Inactive Member15 Apr 2011 12:00 p.m. PST

Now I'm home and can finally see the picture, I concur that it's definitely a Panhard – the shape of the mudguards and the hinged shutters at the rear of the crew compartment gave it away for me.

As Dom says; while not a common German practice, the British did very commonly remove turrets from obsolete recce vehicles – Marmon Herringtons, Stuarts, Daimler Armoured Cars and Staghounds to name a few. This not only reduced the profile, but also considerably reduced the weight and therefore increased speed, handling and fuel consumption.

Porkmann15 Apr 2011 12:16 p.m. PST

The footage has the "smell" of 41/42 and at that stage the main gun would have been pretty good by German standards!

I suspect Dom is right in guessing that this one never had a turret and was a "runabout".

Just odd that there seem to be no auxiliary aerials…

Etranger Inactive Member17 Apr 2011 4:30 a.m. PST

Panhards were also popular transport for the Propaganda Kaompanie (PK) war correspndents. They might find a turretless vehicle handy too.

Personal logo Doms Decals Sponsoring Member of TMP17 Apr 2011 9:28 a.m. PST

I believe the PK units were issued the Panhard Commandement, which was the French command vehicle version, with a fixed superstructure rather than a turret.

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