"What did Orcs look like before...." Topic

Hey I've been collecting minis for a long time and the thought came to me ,
What did Orcs look like before Ciradel miniatures/Games workshop ?
I ask because so many companies tend to sculpt Orcs which have a similar style and look. Not that is a bad thing , i was just wondering.
My oldest Orc minis are Grenadier Orcs of the severed Hand Box set ( which are still my most favorite Orcs).

My first Orcs were the Minifigs ones that looked like mail clad Saracens with scimitar/cleavers. At least I thought that's what they looked like.
The Minifigs pig-faced Orcs were a big improvement.
I did not care for the Der Kriegspielers/Heritage ones that came next. I thought the sculpting was way too rough.

I would love to know why the GW style of Orcs and Goblins is copied by so many other companies. Do sculptors lack any imagination?

Yeah, those Grenadier orcs are my oldest orcs too… they're bestial looking but not comical, more like ape-men if anything.
I painted mine in dark-ish skin tones… but IIRC the one on the box cover had green skin.
When were those? Early 80s? When Warhammer was just getting started?

At this point people just seem to expect Orcs to look like the GW ones… which is unfortunate. I'd like to see some lanky, sinister looking orks… not these top-heavy steroid abusers.

Pig faced Minifigs were my first as well.

I think the look of the GW orcs sell, hence there's a lot of same same to all the ranges out there.

Long, long ago when I was first introduced to Orcs via Tolkien, I imagined them looking very much like the Gammorrean Guards of Star Wars – big, green, pig faced. My company's Orcs will be Pig-Faced, as I just have a hard time thinking of them as anything but Porcine.

-A.

My oldest are Heritage Miniatures, Lord of the Rings line. Here is a link to one:

picture

As John mentioned, the sculpting was "rough", but I loved 'em just the same.

Dave

Oldest I know of:

auction

I don't care much for the GW orks, they're way too cartoony. Personally My favorite orcs were drawn by Angus MacBride for MERP. Tom Meier has some great orc/goblin sculpts over at Thunder Bolt Mountain miniatures.

Somebody did hairy, beastman-type orcs once… can't remember the manufacturer. They didn't catch on.

I read LotR young, and couldn't shake the connection in my head between 'orc' and 'auk'. So I pictured them with hatchet-like beaky faces and scaly, vulture's-claw hands. As an image, it actually works pretty well.

But I think we might be putting the cart before the horse when it comes to the popularity of the GW orcs.

I don't think GW orcs are prevalent because they're big, green and steroidal.

I think big, green, steroidal orcs are prevalent because they're GW.

I think big, green, steroidal orcs are prevalent because they're GW.

I thought that was the general consensus…
Like has been said… the MERP and LOTR movie versions are much more in line with my mental picture.

My favorite orcs are the Asgard/now viking forge orcs that come out around the same time the early citadel orcs did. They look similar to the early citadel ones in that they look like twisted ugly humanoids without the huge muscles and severe under bites. It seems like the earliest manufacturers either modeled their orcs to have pig faces or look like some kind of traditional goblin character. Personally I can't stand the current GW version that is so prevalent.

I prefer the Orc/Goblin/Imp line from Ral Partha.

"My oldest Orc minis are Grenadier Orcs of the severed Hand Box set ( which are still my most favorite Orcs)."

Those are my favorite orcs, hands down. I stripped and repainted mine a few years back, doing them a lot more justice the second time around.

My first were the the Heritage Dungeon Dweller orcs (the samurai-looking ones, not the earlier, more ragged-looking ones), and the early Grenadier AD&D ones.

And no, I don't know why everyone has copied Warhammer orcs. That is one of my little irritants. If you can't bring anything new to the table, why bother? If I want GW orcs, they're much easier to come by.

I have to admit that my favorites are the older version of GWs Orc warriors – very dark and sinister and in all kinds of builds:

link
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I am not fond of the newer ones at all, gorillas…

i remember the smiling custon cast ones… they are Rankin-Bass "The Hobbit" inspired but all in all I like the GW sytle even for my D&D games
Didn't like the Animated LotR ones and never liked the pig faced minifig and notice TSR Wizards changed the image .

The grenadier severed hand clan are not too bad neither are the D&D miniature game ones but I have so many Gw ones that they grew on me

The original D&D orcs were described as pig-faced, primitive humanoids of brutal temperament and possessed of a low cunning and rudimentary, if malevolent, intelligence and tech level.

Before GW, orc figures either more-or-less matched that description, or they looked like primitive humans or tusked neanderthals, mostly.

I have to say, having been in the hobby for 30ish years now, the relatively recent trend w/GW's orcs/orks towards a more menacing, more serious-if-exaggerated look, meets with my approval. I never liked GW's cartoony orcs (or goblins, for that matter, until the more sinister/Omega Man/Night People-inspired Night Goblins showed up), and was never a huge fan of the "we'll just make'em oddly proportioned neanderthals with bad teeth" or "Satan's Bacon" looks, either.

- Monk

I have an whole army of Orcs painted brown and goblins painted an orange-tint of brown. In the early nineties this was still accepted perfectly ok – AD&D still had a large influence on how various monsters are supposed to look.

These days, when I show my old armies to a youngster, he immediately calls for the GW-Gestapo.

My favourite Orcs were the Nick Lund creations. link

I came across about 30 or so in a box after I moved a couple of years ago. They inspired me to get back into fantasy wargaming. I still think they are the best "real" interpretation of a fantasy being. I do not like the cartoon versions of GW, but the new Mantic Orcs are not too bad, although they do lean towards the comic book imagery to some extent.

Phil – I also think that Orcs are NOT always green!

Though not very "realistic" with all their nice shiny armor, I was partial to these orcs that came out of the Brothers Hildebrand in the mid-70's.

link

My first orcs were from the Minifig Middle Earth line. My favorite orcs were the original Ral Partha sculpts of the White Hand orcs. Not cartoonish at all.

My oldest Orcs are from the Scruby fantasy line. Two types: Giant Orcs and then just Orcs. Some smallish pictures can be found on the Tabletop Talk site: tabletoptalk.com/?p=412

I have always wanted orcs and elves based on the Rankin & Bass films.

I had some of the Grenadier Goblins and they were OK. I have some of the old Heritage LOTR orcs, they are very rough sculpts. I prefer the MERP type orcs that are still produced by Mithril.

IIRC the Custom Cast were dirived from the Tim Kirk paintings (mid-70's Tolkien calendar)

link

Those Hildebrandt-inspired Valiant Man-Orcs remind me of A.L.F. gone bad!

The Hidebrandts also did a nice line in 'not-orcs' for their own S&S world, Urshurak:

picture

I think the problem is that there are so many other sorts of monsters out there that, in order to be unique you have to match to a standard of some kind if you want the creature to be recognized as a specific type. I can't count the number of times I've bought a box of random fantasy and had man-like figures whose exact species couldn't be identified. Bare or painted, all of GW's orcs can be recognized as orcs.

"I would love to know why the GW style of Orcs and Goblins is copied by so many other companies. Do sculptors lack any imagination?"

John,

I do not think it is an issue of lack of imagination as a need to compete in the market. Games Workshop/Citadel, whether one likes it or not, is the main fantasy war-game of choice. Hence other companies are sculpting Orcs that players will buy to use with their Warhammer armies. Even the Manic Orcs are simular to the Warhammer Orcs. Yes, Manic is touting their own game system but no one is fooled that Manic is hoping for sales to Warhammer players. To me the best orcs are the ones inspired by the Lord of the Rings movie.

My first orcs were the Grenadier Orcs Lair set.

picture

Well I read one fantasy account that Orcs were tortured elves. So they look like grotesque elves.

I really like the Dark Hold Orcs in 1/72 that are owned by Rebel Miniatures.

link

LLC aka Ron

I like Khurasans orcs.

I'd say the original Orc look came from Tim Kirk's 1975 Tolkien Calendar:

The Road to Minas Tirith: picture

Two Orcs: picture

That was probably the first illustrations of Tolkien Orcs ever published, and of course, all the early Orcs in gaming or miniatures were derivative of Tolkien, since he was the first fantasy author to use that word with that particular meaning.

WOW better reponse than i figured. hey first off thanks for all the great links and pics ,many models that i have never seen , bad thing is i want to find some of them.lol
Is there any way to find out what was the first Orc gaming mini produced? who produced it and the sculptor,It may be weird but its some thing i would love to know.
I guess we would have to see when (year) the first D&D game came out and i guess we can then figure out which company or person produced the frist figs following that.Its like CSI for gaming nerds. :)

I like the original Minifigs ME orcs (the very 1st that I got), Mirliton (ex-grenadier), Ral Partha, Ilyad & Thunderbolt orcs. Got loads from various manufacturers.
Whatever happened to the Maveryc Roman legion styled orcs?

Steroidial, perhaps, but my favorite orcs are Vor Growlers.

Oh, wait, they're my favorite Orks…

Never mind.

Doug

Call me old school, but these are what I think of when I think orc:

link

Pig boys all the way.

I rather like Reaper's old DHL Orcs. Very "goblin-y". Let's see if I can find some links…. Ah, here they are:

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link

D&D had the playing field all to itself for a while… they could well have established a 'definitive' Orcetype (heh… 'orcetype', geddit? See what I did…? Tch. Suit yerselves.)

Problem was, they couldn't settle on what they wanted… generic sub-humans in early descriptions, pig-faced in the 1977 Monster Manual (and several depictions since), gradually backing off from that and creeping closer to the GW model with every version since then.

They were a sub-type of the Goblin race in D&D, but a seperate race in AD&D.

They couldn't even settle on a colour… always described in the typical TSR colour lexicon (never say 'green' when you could say 'greenish-gray, tending towards olive, often with a yellowish tint').

Example (3rd ED): "Grey-green… snouts & ears have a slightly pink tinge… eyes with a reddish tint".

What did Orcs look like before Ciradel miniatures/Games workshop ?

Usually they were very snappy dressers, favoring Botany Bay and Brooks Brothers suits when they could afford it. Really spiffy shoes too, normally Gucci, kept to a very high shine. Almost always they wore narrow ties (although bow ties were not unheard of) and absolutely avoided clip-ons, considering the wearing of such an act About Which One Must Not Speak. Their handkerchiefs were almost never white, since such did not go well with their normally brownish-green skin.

On the few occasions when they broke out the casual clothes, they usually wore Polo shirts and light sweaters if they needed them. They avoided leather at all costs, so those pictures you sometimes see of them wearing leather jackets are all post-GW. Their most common light jackets were Members Only.

Adventurers raiding the clubs and lairs of Orcs in the pre-GW era were normally surprised at the large and well-preserved copies of GQ and Esquire that would always be laying around, usually open to a particularly nice photo shoot of the latest fashions.

So, what did Orcs look like before Ciradel miniatures/Games workshop? If you ask them, pretty sharp, man, pretty sharp…

Some pre-slotta, pre-WFB, Citadel Red Orcs: link

About halfway down the page are the Ral Partha Orcs, Goblins, and Imps from the late 70s:
link
The same page has some early Grenadier Orcs.

An Old School Minifigs Orc, of the "pig face" group:
link

Heritage did a number based on the Bakshi version of LotR.
(still looking for good pics)

The Otherworld piggy orcs are very nice.

Pig faced orcs, like using unpainted miniatures in a game, are the work of Shaitan.

I much prefer the old Ral Partha 1979 goblins, goblin imps, and hobgoblins to use for Orcs. I don't like the pig look or the GW cartoony style.

The venerable Viking Forge/Asgard orcs mentioned above were also nice.

The minifig pig faced orcs were my first. Not a huge fan of the pig face look, but they were my first. There are a lot of nice orcs out there that I like. The Tom Meier orcs and the old Citadel orcs are probably my favorites, but I like other styles as well. I quite like the GW Warhammer orcs – they aren't what I envision when I think of Middle Earth orcs, but there is an extensive range that really lends itself to kit-bashing fun.

My first Orcs were the Heritage Lord of the Rings miniatures. Loved the look of those figures. They were my first major investment in 25mm. Sadly long gone. I had the GW and Marauder Orcs when I was into WHFB, 3rd edition. Not bad but over time the newer figures just became caricatures. My present Orc armies for Middle-earth are the not so old BTD Legions of the Realm range. Great figures and what I personally expected Orcs to be. Went through hell getting the figures but they are worth it. I have Mordor and Isengard armies. I also have a Misty Mountains Orc army, of the old Vendel Orcs and Goblins. For those who like the pig-face Orcs, Otherworld Miniatures does a very nice range. They also do Hobgoblins, which could be used as Uruks as well as Goblins. Even their Bugbears have a vague resemblance to the Rankin & Bass Goblins from the Hobbit, sans the horns.
Orcs
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Hobgoblins
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Goblins
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Bugbears
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Andrew

"I don't care much for the GW orks, they're way too cartoony"

It is the 41st Millenia and in the darkness there is only….Green Comic relief, because everyone else is too damn serious all the time. Huzzah!

A bit different?
picture

I don't understand why they are always green. Making them always a bright green (and brainwashing the masses into the 'green is orky') mindset is the biggest crime GW has ever commited.

The only Orcs I have considered getting are:

The OOP Rackham Confrontation ones
link

and

this new company called Warcanto
dwarftales.com/galleries/8

…and heaven forbid, they paint them as something other than green! …I often bemoan the current 'dark gothic skullz' era of GW but forget it balances the 'stupid tongue in cheek era' of 'Lion-el Johnson' and the orky boyz