"Most Iconic Race in Warhammer?" Topic

Which of the Warhammer races is the most iconic?

Orcs

I think I would second orcs. And GW's style of greenskins have been copied over and over.

Though chaos (not actually a race) are very iconic. One of the best jobs of jacking and repainting they've ever done.

Skaven are rather unique – one of the few whose NAME cannot be confused.

There are orcs, elves, goblins, empires, chaos, etc in every fantasy world. Only one universe has Skaven.

Pat

Oh you know, those with the little skulls all over their armor.

Yup, I would have to say chaos. I can just hear my 13 year old self saying "Dude! those guys look bad a@@!" That was 25 years ago mind you.

Slaan?
Zoats?

Orcs. They are on everything!

Orcs

slaan … if u have any and sell them on ebay , u will konw what i mean .

Hmm, well as Warhammer was initially a clone of JRR's vision it would be unfair for GW to have an icon that actually belongs to another.

The Elves and the Dwarves are basic LotR types…although the Troll and Giant Slayers are quite iconic for the Warhammer setting picture

The humans are just that.

The Slann and Lizardmen are certainly interesting but iconic, as in first image that pops into your head, perhaps not…though the Slann Mage-Priest is a iconic image within the setting picture

The Trolls and Ogres do have a particular look, and I am a big fan of both in game and if context, but not a go to iconic thought.

The Skaven picture are one that GW can hold some grip of creation; lots of fiction and miniatures have been based upon ratmen, but they did their due diligence on this race. I would say that Skaven do have an iconic image though most people may not instantly recognize this race as Warhammer.

Chaos is not a race so is right out, although I am a fan of the same and Chaos is recognizable thought not instantly iconic as there are so many visions of chaos picture picture picture not just one.

Undead…again not a race and just a simple mirror of the term…nothing iconic here.

Beastmen picture are a frontrunner for iconic race…they are a common thought given life…I am a big fan of all things beastmen so I am a bit bias…but as far as being a race they can claim true ownership and also iconic status, I would vote for these guys.

Orcs and Goblins picture are a direct theft from LotR. Changing a K or a C does not change the fact that they just stole this from JRR. That said, the big mouthed, toothy grin, and huge heads are an iconic image that most everyone would recognize. So most likely it is the greenskins, although they do not deserve to have such a claim.

*****

1. Beastmen
2. Skaven
3. Orcs…begrudgingly in top three, the stolen bull in the china shop

Zoats, or dragon ogres.

Beastmen are just the Runequest Broo with a name change… I like them but don't see them as iconic of Warhammer.
I'd vote for the big dumb green orcs… true, Tolkien had orcs too… but GW's don't have much at all in common with those.
Unless someone knows of a good example of big dumb green orcs that pre-dates GW's.

That said, the big mouthed, toothy grin, and huge heads are an iconic image that most everyone would recognize.

Indeed. I recognize the look from the Rankin-Bass version of The Hobbit. The only things really missing are a jawline and being green.

The Orcs have been the icons of WFB for years, however. Of the races that have distinct WFB versions or are unique to that setting, the Orcs are the first to mind. Skaven and Slaan are the other two.

WFB Beastmen really have only the named Chaos powers to differentiate them from Gloranthan Broo. The look and the behavior are all Broo.

I'd have to say Empire. Most fantasy stuff I knew of before Warhammer dealt with all of the other stuff, orcs, elves, Brettonians (more or less) but Warhammer really made things different by doing a gunpowder-type fantasy human army when I was more used to pre-gundpowder type human armies.

Guns were something that happened in sci-fantasy stuff but the straight up fantasy stuff didn't have hand guns or cannons. At least the way we played it.

Another vote for orcs. I really don't think they have that much in common with Tolkien's orcs, except the name.

How about Dark Elves, I think Warhammer was the first time I'd heard of them? (Though I suppose there is a Moorcock tie-in)

Red Gobins anyone?

Firmir! I read somewhere that Bryan Ansell wanted an 'iconic' race akin to Broo in Runequest, and gave us the Firmir…

Chaos Dwarves.

Snotlings??????????????????????????????????????????
Grabs coat and runs.

For Sigmar and the Emperor!

The Empire.

I think if the question is "most iconic", the answer has to be Empire. As Pictors points out, GW's Empire was the first fantasy race with gunpowder. I'd argue they were also the first fantasy human race with their particular historical-derived look as well -- post-Medieval Germanic or whatever it is.

But most importantly, Sigmar, the Empire hero or god or progenitor or whatever he is, uses the iconic weapon the game system is named after.

Orcs
Skaven
Empire, in that order.

Skaven

slann then skaven

Orcs or Chaos, really.

We are talking GW here and I bet that you can search and find that nothing of theirs is original.

They took things from as many Sci-fi and Fantasy writers that they could find.

Them they molded it and in some cases gave it a new name. But they have tried to Trademark nearly everything that they have done and will bully anyone who trys to do something that they did not think of.

Orcs, Chaos and Skaven

Empire doesn't strike me as particularly emblematic, maybe because they are more historical… and we had loads of black powder weapons in our High School D&D games.

Slann do make sense (though even they have their provenance)… but GW hasn't made much use of the Slann themselves since 3rd edition (just one big toad sorceror).

Skaven are fairly unique but seem too… stinky… it's like electing the campus hosemonster as homecoming queen.

If it isn't Orcs then it's got to be Chaos… the manner in which GW has portrayed it… the symbols and distinctive visuals of each branch of 'service'. The different sorts of demons. It's the pretty much the biggest bad in the game… the one most likely to eventually destroy the world.

The green big jaw toothy ork look I think GW has made there own. Indeed the whole south london thing seemed to get its way into the lord of the rings films with the goblins which seemed to lean more towards GW than tolkien! Chaos is the other lynchpin of their worlds.

Saying that if they could get Space marines in fantasy, they would!

I have to vote Chaos here.

I'd say chaos.

It's not original – GW's version is largely lifted from Michael Moorcock's fantasy novels.

And pretty much every fantasy game has 'demons' of some description.

Where GW got it right was the iconography: skullz, MOAR skullz, spikes, the eight-pointed sigil.

And they marketed it right, too – of GW's 'original' races, only Chaos has been successfully reinvented with every new edition since the first, enabling them to sell more armies.
(Skaven can't match this – they were a later addition to the WH canon, and other fantasy games had ratmen for years before GW.)

GW also got it right by pitching Chaos as demonic beings from a Cosmic, Lovecraftian origin – rather than from religious mythology – thus avoiding a lot of the hassle TSR got. (their devils having Biblical names and coming from 'Hell'.)

Empire
Dwarves
Skaven
In that order, IMO…

Chaos.

The original idea was certainly Lovecraft/Moorcock – inspired, but they really turned it into something that you identified with the Warhammer "universe" around the release of Warhammer 3rd Edition, the original Rogue Trader book and the two Realm of Chaos books – "Lost and the Damned" and "Slaves to Darkness". Artwork by the likes of Ian Miller and John Blanche didn't hurt either.

They also had it running though the "Enemy Within" campaign for their RPG. Still probably THE best fantasy RPG campaign I've ever played.

So, yeah – Chaos as far as I'm concerned.

Another vote for Chaos,great to play against as much as commanding yourself.

Skaven.

Squigs seem fairly unique. I'll go with squigs. They stole everything else.

Orcs

Orcs are the first thing that comes to my mind when you say Warhammer. Chaos would be second.

Jason
Stafford, VA

Chaos.

(Skaven can't match this – they were a later addition to the WH canon, and other fantasy games had ratmen for years before GW.)

Got a cite for that? Skaven are in the WFB 3rd ed Armies book, while the Chaos that is now so recognized is not. Until the two big hardcovers *late* in 3rd edition, WFB Chaos was painfully generic and/or ripped from Runequest. No four lords.

Grenadier's Ratmen *might* predate the Skaven, but there was no ruleset associated with them. Everyone else's ratmen either post-date the Skaven or were actually D&D Wererats, who derive from the tales of Fafhrd & The Grey Mouser.

Anything that GW did not steal directly from JRR is good with me :)

Skaven
Slaan
Chaos (not a race :)

Yes there are examples of ratmen…but not Skaven, GW did their due diligence to create a culture to go with the idea of ratmen.

There are frogmen and toadmen…but again GW did take another direction with the Aztec/Mayan application.

These work for me :)

Chaos isn't a race but it does include a collection of races… of demons, each of which is fairly unique… except for the Khorne stuff. Not that any of them have much culture of their own…

I'm not sure where the idea came from but I remember Aztec/Mayan frog-people looooong before I ever heard of GW… I put them in my homebrew RPG setting in High School.
Maybe in some old issue of The Dragon?

Farstar:

Skaven were introduced in 1986.
Their background was first given in Citadel Journal magazine, along with 2nd ed. lists and stats.
(so the first time they appeared 'in the book', as it were, was 3rd ed.)

Because they were introduced 'between editions', the first game they officially featured in was actually 'Blood Bowl'.

Here:
link

As far as other types of Ratmen predating them, D&D/AD&D had their Wererats since 1975, they've featured in every edition, and have a ton of backstory.
(Tunnels & Trolls listed them as 'Additional Werecreatures – GM's discretion' in the same year.)

Palladium have had Ratlings (not the same as 40k space-hobbits) and/or Rattons since 1983. (one of those races is from one of the late-80's supplements, can't be bothered to check which one. They're both rats, anyhoo.)

Don't get me wrong… nobody has done it nearly as well as GW. But ratmen per se aren't original, and popping up between 2nd & 3rd Ed. means Skaven can't claim a perfect track record.

iconic: of, relating to, or of the nature of an icon

icon: a person or thing regarded as a representative symbol of something

Though in gaming usage, what is "iconic" is something that anyone looks at and immediately identifies as being representative of a particular concept or genre. "Most" would imply the one that the greatest number of viewers would associate with that same concept or genre.

On those grounds, GW's version of big-headed, tusked, green-skinned orcs probably wins.

All their races are derivative. Even Chaos is derivative. And people covered evil barbarian with skulls and spikes long before GW. But that green-skinned orc? That's GW.

The GW tournament players.

popping up between 2nd & 3rd Ed. means Skaven can't claim a perfect track record.

Indeed. My point was that a) there was no rules-to-miniatures ties other than wererats (and not many of those) prior to the Skaven, and b) GW Chaos as it is currently recognized "popped up" between WFB 3rd and 4th. Some of basic framework was there earlier, but the iconic Ruinous Powers of Khorne, Slaanesh, Tzeentch, and Nurgle were not.

One of my best early wererat minis may actually be a pre-slotta Citadel.

A White Dwarf.

Ironically, no one nominated the "correct" answer (according to a recent issue of White Dwarf)…

High Elves