| Incognito | 17 Mar 2011 1:30 p.m. PST |
hey all
can someone please tell me the difference between the headgear worn by the british in the peninsular wars and at waterloo. I understand that one is the belgic shako? I have seen both on minis but cant really tell much difference between the two cheers
Bryan |
| Angel Barracks | 17 Mar 2011 1:37 p.m. PST |
one has a flat top the other has a crest if you will:
link
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| Field Marshal | 17 Mar 2011 1:39 p.m. PST |
Belgic
link Stovepipe
picture Stovepipes are simpler and dont have the shape like a Belgic…belgic comes in after 1812 FM |
| abeldude | 17 Mar 2011 1:40 p.m. PST |
A picture paints a thousand words, or 'spot the difference' Stovepipe shako pre 1812 (ish) picture Belgic shako, post 1812 link picture |
| xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx | 18 Mar 2011 7:38 a.m. PST |
They are both derivatives of Austrian kit – the stovepipe is like the Grenzer Klobuk (a tall fez, just like that), while the Belgic is a standard line Kaskett. |
| Sparker | 18 Mar 2011 12:30 p.m. PST |
They are both derivatives of Austrian kit – the stovepipe is like the Grenzer Klobuk (a tall fez, just like that), while the Belgic is a standard line Kaskett. Oh Behave! The 'stovepipe' Shako first introduced in Dec 1800 was a response to complaints that the cocked hat, which had got larger and larger, was too uwieldy. The shako itself was simply a cut down, cheaper version of the 'round hat' issued for tropical or maritime duties, which itself was a cheap version of civilian hats of the time. |
| xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx | 18 Mar 2011 1:38 p.m. PST |
Ever looked at the British uniforms around 1800? What do you think Sharpe's uniform is – the clue is in the experiments with rifle troops just after the British returned from the Belgian campaign. Then there are the Hussar uniforms with the curved sabres and the baker rifle is just a copy of the Austrian 1779 pattern. The stovepipe is just a tube with a lid on it – just like the Grenzer Klobuk. |
| (religious bigot) | 18 Mar 2011 2:44 p.m. PST |
Take away the lace and the infantry coat looks very like an austrian one too – single breasted, turnbacks only on the outer corners, buttoned to the waist. |
| Sokrateez | 18 Mar 2011 5:10 p.m. PST |
That is a noob question! Everyone knows you should be fighting a real mans campaign like one against the Germans or Russians! ;) |
| nsolomon99 | 20 Mar 2011 1:18 a.m. PST |
Well Dave … amazing … just amazing! |
| xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx | 20 Mar 2011 3:18 a.m. PST |
Have you ever looked at the waistbelt worn by senior British officers these days? Yellow band with black lines through it. How about this? link |
| XV Brigada | 20 Mar 2011 5:54 a.m. PST |
The origins of the British stovepipe shako are indeed Austro-Hungarian. The word itself is derived from the Magyar Csakós sülveg meaning a peaked cap. This should be no surprise bearing in mind that Austria had been a constant ally during the latter part of the 18th century and the British army was influenced by Austrian military fashion during that time. Fur Grenadier caps and hussar-style braided jackets for light dragoons being other examples. The stovepipe shako was inspired by the cap worn by the Grenz infantry and was introduced into the British army by General Order dated 24 February 1800 after experiments with "caps after the Austrian fashion". Initially of lacquered leather a felt shako was ordered in 1806. The shortlived false-fronted 'Belgic' shako which replaced it was probably inspired by the Portuguese Barretina shako which was itself based loosely on peasant headwear. It was probably worn in action for the first time at Waterloo and was replaced in August 1815. Bill |
| Sparker | 20 Mar 2011 3:44 p.m. PST |
OK! ok! White flags above the parapet – I'm convinced! But who'd have thought it…. |
| 4th Cuirassier | 21 Mar 2011 12:42 p.m. PST |
Actual examples of the Belgic shako I've seen are a lot shorter than wargames figures lead you to expect. I am interested to find that the resemblance between the Airfix AWI British grenadiers' headgear, and that of Austrian Napoleonic grenadiers, is not a coincidence. |
| XV Brigada | 22 Mar 2011 3:59 a.m. PST |
Sparker, LOL. You are clearly a gentleman. You may keep you side arms and march out with all honours of war:-) Bill |
| SJDonovan | 22 Mar 2011 5:22 a.m. PST |
You can find all the details in 'Waterloo – A Victory for German Hats' by Peter Hofschröer. |
| xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx | 22 Mar 2011 2:48 p.m. PST |
No, he should be taken away and given a good flogging. |
paints the Dogman from the Flintloque starter set.
