 Condor  | 08 Mar 2011 3:47 p.m. PST |
I guess my previous post would have produced better results if I knew how many ships I should really purchase/build. It seems that many ancient naval battles involved hundreds of ships. Most tabletop games on the market scale these numbers to make the games more manageable. I thought that 75 ships divided among everyone that wanted to play would be ok. Now I am realizing I have to think in terms of ships per player. When you run an ancients miniature naval battle, how many ships do you give each player to command? I guess a qualifier for this question could be using what rules? Some rules make commanding 10 ships easy, others make it tedious or difficult. |
| MajorB | 08 Mar 2011 4:08 p.m. PST |
I have yet to find a set of ancient naval rules that will allow you to play a game with anything like a realistic number of ships. |
| phssthpok | 08 Mar 2011 4:26 p.m. PST |
The boat sheds at Pireaus(?)are in groups of fours and eights. Also when traveling in column the fleet formed up four abreast. So four ships was probably the smallest unit above individual vessels Above that I have no idea. I also am on a quest to find a decent set of Fleet size rules. |
| Caesar | 08 Mar 2011 6:50 p.m. PST |
Not every naval encounter was enormous. |
| ghostdog | 08 Mar 2011 7:31 p.m. PST |
the best ruleset i have found is naumachiae, from rod langton games |
| Allen57 | 08 Mar 2011 7:46 p.m. PST |
David Manley did a fleet level set of rules titled Greek Fire and Roman Fury. They were published in Wargames Illustrated #187. I quite like them. They use groups of ships on movement bases. A number of bases represent a squadron. Salamis is given in the rules with 11 squadrons totaling 74 bases for the Persians and 6 squadrons totalling 34 bases for the Greeks. The Persian fleet has 4 admirals and the Greek has 2 admirals. Each base can have from 1-4 models at your discretion. I use Outpost Wargames Services 1/3600 galleys with 3/base. These guys are tiny, about an inch in length. Makes a nice visual presentation on the table. Al |
| Condor | 09 Mar 2011 10:59 a.m. PST |
Isn't this fun?  There is no one right answer. I have played hundreds of naval battles in just about every genre -- except ancients. Everytime I watch Ben Hur or Cleopatra, or even watch the history channel, that urge builds ever grater. I knew that not all battles involved hundreds of ships, but thanks for the reminder. I have purchased and downloaded every rules set on the internet. If it can't be download, like Naumachiae, I have purchased it. I ordered a copy yesterday from an outfit in Virginia. Their FAQ section is what inspired my to purchase them. Funny you should mention Outpost Wargames Services. I just received my order. Of course we will be wearing reading glasses while we play our games. I will probably paint them in really bright colors so they will be easier to see/find. David Manley is a pretty good guy and I have several sets of his rules. I have not heard of Greek Fire and Roman Fury, unless it migrated into "Salamis ad Actium". Maybe I will give him a quick PM. I guess with the 1/3600 ships I can spray paint sandpaper and use that for troops.  |
| RockyRusso | 09 Mar 2011 11:47 a.m. PST |
Hi I use a modified version of "Bireme and Galley" which I have integrated into our "Art of War" system. My issue with "size and detail" is the level of the game. just as in army level, there are divisional level games and skirmish level games and in between, I do the same with the boats depending on what is being gamed. I have whole fleets of small, ca 1/1000 boats with fairly abstracted systems when doing fleets and 1/72 boats for skirmish level with appropriate changes. The overall system is similar to keep it, well, simple. Rocky |
John Leahy  | 09 Mar 2011 3:22 p.m. PST |
Yeah, I'd like to see a large battle set too. Thanks, John |
| Allen57 | 09 Mar 2011 4:56 p.m. PST |
Condor, if you want to see the 1/3600 galleys painted up take a look at this link |
| NCC1717 | 09 Mar 2011 5:02 p.m. PST |
Been struggling with that for decades:
link |
| Condor | 10 Mar 2011 9:14 a.m. PST |
Both links are really cool, thanks for posting them to this thread. NCC1717, what rules did you use for that battle? Also, how many ships did each commander control? |
| John Leahy | 10 Mar 2011 2:18 p.m. PST |
Possibly the ones on his site as a PDF? |
| NCC1717 | 10 Mar 2011 3:55 p.m. PST |
The photos are of a solo playtest of the Diodochi rules. The Delos rules are for trieres (triremes) only. Given the simplicity, I think players could easily control several or many squadrons with either rule set. |
| Hetairoi | 11 Mar 2011 7:59 a.m. PST |
I´m working on Impetus Navalis rulebook:
link Yo can command up to 20 ships and the game is still quick. Cheers. |
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