"Support Your Local Stores" Topic

Are there not two sides to this story ? What are the manufacturers doing to support games stores ?

Not to pick on GHQ directly but as they started this post, in many years of visiting all flavours of hobby / game stores I've only ever seen a few blisters of your product. (And I'm sure someone has an example of a store that stocks the full range but I believe my point is still valid). A bit hard to inspire local sales when it appears only a few models are available.

Meanwhile, a few new "upstarts" like Spartan Games manage to get three ranges into two local stores – maybe not complete – but much more than the "Old Guard" have done. Mantic Games appears to have solved the distribution issue too.

As far as special orders go – why is it always the shop-owners fault ? My FLGS had received several special orders in for me very quickly, this latest one they are having trouble with. When I asked, they shrugged apologetically and said they only received half their order. The knee-jerk reaction is likely "they need to get a new distributor" but I have a feeling distributors may be as rare as games stores.

I asked about another line of figures and the owner said he's trying but his distributor can't get them. Ironically, he mentioned that he could likely get them direct but "he wants to support his distributor". A store owner told me he stopped carrying a line of paint as their orders were never received complete.

So I'd humbly suggest that we customers are trying to buy locally and support our local stores. My question is, what are the manufacturers doing ?

I'm a firm believer in the LGS, I'll pay a higher price to buy from my FLGS any day of the week!

Much harder if you're not a Webstore. I drove an hour each way once, b/c a store has a website which lists their inventory. I coulda bought online, but I like to browse and pick thing ups before I buy them. So, I drove and bought. Also, much harder not to buy once you walk into a physical store. Its a constant challenge to draw NEW customers.

I do love Great Hall Games too. Great group of folks there and no Smellys! As a manufacturer, GHQ what do you do to promote sales in LGS? I love your products and buy a ton of it. Mainly from warweb.com since our store closed. Last square in Madison, WI is pretty nice too.
Scott

And yet GHQ sells online directly to the customer.

As has been pointed out, GHQ did start this topic. We thought that it would be worthwhile to bring the closing of a 40+ year old hobby/gaming (no need to get into the minutiae here) store to the attention of TMP users. As was initially mentioned they were a well-run, friendly operation, and many people have fond memories of this store. We merely wanted to remind people that if you like a store, then you need to patronize it, or it will not survive. That's all.

As was also previously mentioned, we hear from people all of the time who tell us about their FLGS just closing, closed their doors last year, 3 years ago, etc. Obviously it is up to each individual to decide whether, or not, to patronize a store. If you have one store in town, that carries just 3 lines that don't interest you, the owner is a jerk, and the place is always a mess, then you may not care if that store survives or not. However, if there is a store with a friendly owner, a product range that interests you, and you enjoy visiting, then you may want to think about doing what you can to patronize that store. Most people have busy lives, and it is really easy to say "I'll stop in there next week and buy _______" , and have one week stretch into 5+ weeks. The point is that if you care about the FLGS, and you don't stop in regularly, you too may be writing to GHQ, or a different forum lamenting the loss of your store. Too often the FLGS's get taken for granted. That's all, no hidden Jedi mind tricks.

With all of that being said, someone brought up the fact that GHQ sells online directly to the customer. True enough, no argument here, we don't hide that fact. Wargaming is a hobby that is an inch deep, and thousands of miles wide. We ship out mail orders to places all of the world everyday. Throughout North America, Europe, Asia, Australia, South America, and even to some customers in Africa- everyday. There aren't FLGS's in all of those places. What should those people do? Would anyone suggest that we should turn our backs on them, and stop selling direct?

Now on to another topic that was brought up- what does GHQ do to support FLGS's? First of all, we sell at our MSRP. We would win any price discounting battles with any retailer who tried to "out discount" us on our products. We get a couple e-mails a week from people asking about volume discounts. Guess what we tell them- we don't do that. Secondly, we make it incredibly easy for ANY bricks and mortar store to sell our products. The Dealer Terms are one page, and can be read and filled out in 5-10 minutes. Guess what our minimum order is? It's 1 (one) pack. We won't pay the shipping for a store that orders one pack, but they can order one pack if they like. Here is another big thing that we do to support FLGS's- we ship out all orders 100% filled, and turn them over quickly. There is nothing more frustrating for a store than to have a customer place an order for 10 things, and then only get 8, or 7, or 6, or 5, or 4…, and the order took forever to arrive. As a store operator, your credibility is questioned because that customer will think "Why did I bother ordering with you, when ultimately I didn't get what I wanted, and it took forever?".

As someone else has noted on this thread: "in many years of visiting all flavours of hobby / game stores I've only ever seen a few blisters of your product. (And I'm sure someone has an example of a store that stocks the full range but I believe my point is still valid). A bit hard to inspire local sales when it appears only a few models are available." To that, we must ask, "What would you like us to do?" We attend trade shows, send things out to stores, gladly answer questions, help with putting together orders, etc. We can't make anyone buy our models. Once again, as previously mentioned, talk with your FLGS operators and tell them what you would like to see them stock. The FLGS operators are going to be much more likely to listen to their customers, than to manufacturers. What manufacturer doesn't think that every store is crazy not to stock their products?

We will wrap this up by saying that we had absolutley zero intention of having this thread be about GHQ. We merely wanted to remind everyone that if they care about their local FLGS surviving, then they need to support it with sales, visits, and suggestions because this is a small community and many need help.

OK, fire away!

Thank you for your support,
GHQ

Marc33594 05 Mar 2011 4:55 a.m. PST
Sorry to hear about American Eagles. In my youth, while stationed at a small site in Oregon, used to travel up to Seattle on my breaks and American Eagles was a must stop for me. Always something new. Many of the smaller board game companies who published in the ziplock bag format were represented. I even picked up the first two parts of the Europa Series from GDW there. And got my first issue of Wargamer's Digest there, quickly subscribing.

*NJH: Mt Hebo – Fuzzy 7?

I used to drive up from Portland, OR. I started going to American Eagles in 1972. They are barely eight minutes from my house, I will miss them a lot. Mike Edwards was the heart and soul of American Eagles. Times change and the neighborhood where AE is located is undergoing massive changes, very few of them good. I know other businesses in that area are also having troubles related to those same changes that have driven AE out of business.

Fortunately, we still have The Panzer Depot in Kirkland. It's on my way to/from work. Just today I played in a FnF Reg Mex-Am game. Very smooth rules. Bad day for the Mexicans, but their cav did bust up an American square.

All is not lost for folks in Greater Seattle area, but still a very sad day for us. We're losing a gaming institution.

I live under a rock; I've never heard of GHQ -.-

I think maybe the better middle ground would be running a webstore out of a warehouse and putting up some tables. Let people buy in-house or off the site. Maybe. I don't know the price of warehouse space.

M.

Hey Warbeads –

I went by Viking today and learned that this year marks their 35th year in business.

Jessica, the owner, was commenting on how happy they were that they survived the closing of both Mather and McClellan AFBs!

It does seem that in many cases, having a military base nearby helps, but it's no guarantee of survival.

*NJH: Mt Hebo – Fuzzy 7?

YES!!! 74-76.

Wont bore others so feel free to contact me at marc33594ATyahooDOTcom.

I stopped by American Eagles yesterday to say my goodbyes to the store and recorded my thoughts on my blog nhmgs.blogspot.com

My belief is the closing of FLGS stores is a much more complex subject than we're making it here, particularly in the case of American Eagles. AE was never a miniature game store per se. They stocked some game items, notably GHQ, but no other lines of miniatures. They closed out their line of Minifigs back in the 80's. They were a hobby shop first, and catered more to plastic modelers. Some board games, some really interesting books, massive collection of Ospreys, but miniature gaming not so much.

That said, it was a good hobby shop in a city where rents everywhere have skyrocketed and the economics of miniature wargaming have been drastically altered with the advent of online sales. The miniature wargamers of the Northwest aren't densely located in Seattle, but are scattered hither and yon from Vancouver B.C. to Eugene, Oregon, from Bremerton to Boise. To blame the customers or the store from the pattern of closings isn't fair and ignores changes in the retail patterns of the industry among buyers AND sellers, as well as the diminishing number of hobbyists.

I have many fond memories of American Eagles, Mike and Shirley Edwards, Roger Torgerson and Greg Rose. I think George Edwards did the best he could to make a go of it in Lake City. I have many more of the AE store in Tacoma where I did a lot of gaming. It was hard to say goodbye.

Once again, can we please clarify our point for beginning this thread. We only wanted to remind people that IF you have a local store that you care about, it cannot survive without people patronizing it. Yes, that is incredibly basic, and obvious. However, in our busy lives some of us take things that we care about for granted.

There is no blame being laid on anyone, nor were we attempting to make anyone support a store that they don't like. We realize that there are changes in the marketplace, buying patterns, etc. It is a very complex situation. However, if you have a store near you that you like, your patronization is likely to help keep that store that you like around. That part remains pretty basic.

@GHQOnline – thanks for your comments – you make some very good points. Unless one is on good terms with the owner, it is rare one knows about a store's planned closing until it is too late.

Well I bought a $40 USD kit in a hobby shop yesterday and the games store told me my order (> $200) should be here in a week so my conscience is clear ! :-) <for this week anyway…>

If I had a LGS that…
(a) carried what I want,
(b) was staffed by friendly people,
(c) and, most importantly, had dedicated gaming space…

…I would support it. None of the stores in my small city carry much of anything I'm interested in and don't have the gaming space, or more accurately, don't have the interest to support a gaming community in that way.

As GHQOnline just mentioned, there are changes in the marketplace. The way I see it, there is only one thing that a brick and mortar store can offer that an online store can't – community. Since there isn't really any store community here (or at least, one I'd be interested in) I will continue to shop online where, so far, I've had most excellent experiences and nothing but the best customer service.

If I had a LGS that…
(a) carried what I want,
(b) was staffed by friendly people,
(c) and, most importantly, had dedicated gaming space…

…I would support it.

I would settle for a store that carried what I wanted and didn't gouge me on the price. It has been some time since we had a truly local store that carried soldiers, etc. If I have to choose between 1) ordering from a LHS, driving over an hour to pick the items up and having to pay more for the privlige; or 2) ordering from a mail order store that will send the order directly to my house at a lower cost, then I am probably going to go with the second option. Whenever possible I still try to purchase supplies from "local" stores, even if it does mean paying more, and I will frequently pick up the odd impulse purchase.

We have a store called ftw games in richmond va and the owner is a really nice guy but I feel like such an outcast since everyone plays magic card games and 40k. I am big into the napoleonic war but it really makes me not want to learn to game because the fact no one plays and I just feel so weird around people talking about magic stuff that I can not understand and when I talk about historical stuff they are like what is that. Sadly a real big turn off since I am only 23 and read and collect tons of napoleonic material but most people my age only know about the period that nappy was short.

Hi MarbotsChasseurs,

I live in Richmond, Virginia…..an "Empire" wargamer for many years….wanting to find fellow Napoleonics' wargamers(especially those who play "Napoleon's Battles", which I want to learn to play!), contact me at waynenapempire@aol.oom, perhaps we can gather up some 15mm Napoleonics gamers in the Rihmond, VA. area…..I lived in Richmond since 1995, only to find a dearth of fellow wargamers! Having painted 15mm Napoleonics available to put on wargames is NOT a problem, as I have thousands; albeit basing them for "Napoleon's Battles", I may need some assistance.

Doug Kline, left in 1998, he was heavily into putting on "Johnny Reb", 15mm ACW wargames…..he was one of the few miniatures' wargamers in Rihmond, VA., who actively promoted the hobby!

Sincerely,
Wayne
wayneempire
waynenapempire@aol.com

hitestreak,

Good to hear.

I suspect the military presence in Sacramento was big but when Randy van Vranken and Reggie (why do I never remember his last name?) started a war games group on base (so long ago that Randy was a dependent!) we had so many civilian players eager to join the USAF made us move off base. I always have a soft spot for the Ranch Cordova Library where the Meeting Room was ours for Saturday night (sometimes until it opened Sunday Morning (yes libraries did that then.))

The biggest issues were the Junior High kids dropped off by their parents – if the pay phone (remember those?) was vandalized they were stuck begging rides home (no cell phones back in the 1970's) on occasion.

I admit I would never move back to California again but it's nice to know if I ever visit or go TDY there are some good gaming possibilities still.

Gracias,

Glenn

Several weeks ago I was basing some Napoleonic figures and ran out of hobby super glue. It was after 9:00pm and I knew my local Hobby Lobby was closed but I knew the LGS across town was open to midnight. So I drove clear across town only to find out they didn't have any glue and have been out for weeks. I told the owner that was like being out of paint or brushes. He apologized he just hasn't had the time to order any.

I only play historical miniatures and the LGS only caters to 40K, battletech, cards etc. They stopped carrying my favorite paint line. So what can I do to support them? Special orders take forever and I can order them online and get exactly what I want in a timely manner. For the most part LGS owners do not speak our language (there are rare exceptions like for instance the Last Square). The terminology, the historical periods are just something they don't know or understand which often leads to incorrect orders, getting the wrong figures, etc.

Back in my hometown, back in the 1980s and 90s our game club started out playing 15mm ACW. Since there wasn't a LGS at all, we ordered everything online or mail order. By the late 90s a new LGS thought it would be a good idea since we all played ACW that the owner without asking anyone, stocked up heavily on 15mm ACW miniatures but the problem was we already had all the figures we needed. I felt so bad for him I bought some packs that I didn't need. That was all he sold. We had moved on to Naps. This guy was always behind the trend. Special orders took too long. Online was much quicker with fewer backorders or mistakes.

The internet is tailored made for Historical gamers, because we are such niche players and are constantly moving to a new era and rules. We are also a pretty finicky bunch, when it comes to what figures we want. I think it is just easier and more profitable for the LGS to stick to GW which is easier for the LGS to stock and sell. In fact our local Historical Club has actually suggested to our LGS not to carry historical miniatures because we just can't buy in the volume he needs to keep them on the shelf. The only exception is FOW which seems to be appealing to the GW bunch. But I am not sure how that will play out.

We mostly do our gaming at each others homes. Some do ancients gaming at the LGS on Sundays which is fine unless you're a football fan, but mostly in our homes. You don't have to drag your figures and terrain to the store and you can spend as much time as you want setting up and playing. A lot less hassle than in the store, at home you have more control over the environment such as better lighting, you can have a beer; have music playing and fewer 13 year olds yelling all the same time. Plus you don't feel like you're totally out of place.

I find it rather ironic that this thread was started by GHQ. An old LGS used to carry their 1/2400 WW2 ships. They didn't move for a year or so, and then I bought up all the Japanese ships they had in the store (the locals were playing Seapower, and I like Long Lance torps).

When the LGS went to re-order more ships, they had to re-certify as a dealer, which almost killed the restock for them.

Dealer certification may be a straight-forward process for GHQ, but if you make the process onerous enough to the stores, you won't have your product carried.

We have a policy of only discussing the specifics of a situation with those involved in it. With that being said, we have absolutely no idea which store the previous poster is referring to, or what the situation is.

GHQ is the oldest wargaming company in the world. We have been around continuosly since 1967. In that time we have learned that although this is a small, niche market, it is often filled with large rumors (about many companies), most of which are untrue. When you hear something, think about it, and decide if it makes sense, then verify the information.

As a standard operating procedure we don't de-certify stores. Over the years we have changed computer systems a few times, and culled some stores that haven't ordered from us in a long time. When this happens, and the store contacts us to place an order, we usually take the order, begin processing it, and send the store owner a copy of our one page Dealer Terms to fill out so that we can make sure that all of the information is current. By accepting the order and processing it while the owner is filling out the current store information, we expedite the shipping of that order because often times there are customers waiting for the merchandise. Who really knows what happened with the store in question? If he had some of our ships that didn't move, maybe he didn't want to place a re-stock on any of them, and saying that he couldn't get "re-certified", was easier to say than he just didn't want to order any more. We really don't know, but "de-certifying" stores is not something that we do.

Once again, we don't want this thread to be about GHQ, but if misinformation about our business practices is brought up, we will take the time to set the record straight. We have been in business for 44 years. It would be incredibly hard for a company to stay in business that long if their business practices were unfriendly. We are generally pretty candid about how we do things. We believe that any regular users of our online forum will find that we are more open about how we do business that most companies in any industry.

We sell online, we don't discount from our MSRP, we try to steer people to FLGS's, we do a lot to support FLGS's, we make it easy and quick for a FLGS to open an account with us, we send all orders quickly and 100% filled, we don't "de-certify" stores. That covers most of what anyone has brought up thoughout this thread about GHQ. If you like our products, thank you, we appreciate your support. If you don't, then apparently they aren't for you, and that's OK.

For the umteenth time, all that we intended to do was bring the closing of a store that was well-known, and much liked by many to the attention of some TMP users who may care. Most of us have busy lives, and sometimes thinking about the FLGS that we value does not get thought about until it is too late.

Thank you,
GHQ

I'll support my LGS when they stop sucking. Because they suck now. I'm sick of FoW putting out a new book every six months, changing up the lists, etc and that's about all the store carries, aside from all the fleet battle games my group doesn't play. Our Local GW is nice and has one, great employee. But we play such a home ruled version of the game to keep it simple, we probably couldn't manage it at the store all the time. Not to mention, their prices are insane on paint…..I found an old citadel paint pot in my storage and it says $2.15 USD on it. Which still made it expensive paint in 2002…but $3.70 USD now? And the employee there wonders why I buy all my GW models from Ebay wholesalers while only ever stopping in for paint when I'm out of two or three colours.

Well, I guess I am lucky in some ways here in UK land. I like plastic 1/72 figures, so I can buy these at my local (to work) store – Modelzone in Holborn. But they are a chain, with centralised purchasing, so I cannot get special orders, or even a sensible stocking policy (so they bring in Russian WW1 but not the Germans – why!!!).

So I tend to mail order, but my guilt is clear as I mail order from another bricks and mortar store up in Manchester (F&S Models), who I have only managed to get to once as it is a long way.

Otherwise, I buy at shows, which I guess reflects the cottage industry nature of what we do

There is NO real profit margin to running a miniatures gaming store/clubhouse after all expenses are compiled and paid! There is not a big enough markup from manufacturers or wholesalers prices, and all customers want a "deal" (normal)! I don't see how anyone can make it work for long without having lots of disposable funds they don't need back or a secondary business along side that actully makes money!

Most miniatures gamers demands for service and product can be handled just fine online or places like Ebay. Brick and mortar businesses mostly can not come close, it is just economics in action. I can't see how any can thrive in the future. Some will maybe limp thru with special support from deep pockets. In the end I see them as something very special from back in the "good old days" but no longer having much of a role! Very much like the one or two room school house!!

What's a local game store? Never seen one within 100 miles of me.

The few wargame shops that I've been to, while generally friendly and well-meaning, generally have very little of what I want to buy (apart from paint). The main problem I see here is that it's virtually impossible for a shop owner to stock everything that wargamers might want. Even if you've got a hard core that only play FoW, it's still a heck of a lot of cash-outlay to stock the entire FoW range, only to see your money sitting on the shelves, unbought.

Personally I want a good local gaming club and plenty of choice (and competition) from webstores who will quickly and accurately complete my orders and charge me a fair price, unhindered by illegal price-fixing from manufacturers.

Some manufacturers might say that they are fixing prices in order to support local game stores. However, why should I care? Why should I be denied a webstore discount (due to illegal price-fixing) in order to support shops that I rarely see and never wargame at? In any case, what percentage of wargamers actually wargame in shops?

As best as I can tell, the long-lasting LGS have better employees and policies regarding special orders. Of course, for these companies, it's sometimes unprofitable to take certain special orders. I had to wait, forex, for a larger order of miniatures to come together before my 28mm cowboys came in. This was OK, because I was in no hurry.

It would be great if everyone's local shop had acres of tables, millions of items and everything new available. However, while I like fantasies, this really isn't possible. From what I understand, some locales levy taxes on items in stock for retail businesses, which may be bearable for large chains but I doubt if small firms can handle such taxes easily.

There is NO real profit margin to running a miniatures gaming store/clubhouse after all expenses are compiled and paid!

Bushwah. The FLGS owner has increased his profits every year of the eight that he's been open, and he's done so simply by following the rules any small retail business has to. He picked a good location with low rent, good parking, and fair exposure. He keeps an eye on what's selling, he's conservative about investing in unproven stock, and he widens his range of products a little every year. He's got a few years before his three kids hit college, but I don't see him having any problems paying for it when they do.

You can make good money running a game store, but it takes more business skill than the average maladjusted owner wanna-be has to offer.

We have a good one: "Dogs of War" in Melbourne, and thats it all the way south past Palm beach County

(there are "comic" stores, but the gaming is limited to cards, GW and such)

Thanks to GHQ for their answers to our questions. I for one did not mean to attack them, as I have nothing but praise for their product. I am just curious about what goes on behind the scenes. I think it's natural for gamers to have these questions. I don't think we are singling out GHQ, we are just fortunate that they happen to be willing to post to this forum.

I understand why GHQ started this thread, and I think it's good to remind people about the importance of supporting LGS's. On the other hand, once the issue is raised we can't help but wonder what the manufactures are doing to support the stores, especially the new stores that are trying to establish themselves.

I have heard from a number of shops that describe how the initial order is a difficult one to place, and none that have described it as easy. On the other hand, back in the late 80's I met a guy whom I suspected was passing himself off as a brick and mortar store when he was not. Manufacturers have a right to protect themselves from those who will deceive them. But it is good to revisit such policies from time to time, to make sure that things aren't too hard for the legitimate guys.

No manufacturer should be faulted for selling direct online. They need to in order to survive. GHQ goes about it the right way.

My LGS is also a comic book store. 3/4 of their space is devoted to gaming while probably 3/4 of their sales comes from comic books. A LGS I frequented in the '80's was 1/2 a knitting store. Two others were mainly family games, puzzles and upscale toys. Game stores need to be something else first. They need to be very creative. The loss of this great old LGS reminds us of this.

@GHQ: That's about what I figured had happened in reality, but the owner was frustrated because he couldn't just order his restock.

*I* happen to really like your 1/2400 ships, but 6mm ground combat isn't my thing.

You can make good money running a game store, but it takes more business skill than the average maladjusted owner wanna-be has to offer.

And you can't run the store as a club. It's a business, first, last, and always.

Like I said, my LGS doesn't carry historicals except for FoW because they don't turn. They've got packs of FoW that haven't moved since they brought the line into the store, too, but not many (and that number is decreasing since Early War came out). Now, if you want to play historicals, then no problem, and the owner might even join you for a game or two on store tables.

If the product doesn't move, then it needs to get off the shelves for something that will.

"@GHQ: That's about what I figured had happened in reality, but the owner was frustrated because he couldn't just order his restock."

Just for clarification, any store, can order anytime, whatever GHQ products that they like. Whether it be an initial order, restock, new releases, etc., or any mix of those. We try to make it as easy as possible for any FLGS to do business with us.

Thanks,
GHQ

Well, my local games store is a Games Workshop. I dont know of any other games retailer within dozens of miles of me, and only see traders at conventions.

Thats the UK in a nutshell.

It's all on-line here, and usually a good job is done by the professional specialists Ive just bought a load of 20mm WW2 from model stores in the UK by mail order.

My local independent model shop is all about R/C aircraft – a premium line so I cant knock his business acumen, but the only scraggy bits and pieces they had in for military kits was all bog standard mid-low end stuff, overpriced and not even well displayed. As for their paints, it made even GW look reasonable!

It's OK to say support your local games/model shop, but if its a niche product area for them Id rather buy from someone who knows what they are talking about.

"Wargaming is a hobby that is an inch deep,"

Well, in 1/285 that's almost 24 feet!! :o)

" … can't see how any can thrive in the future. Some will maybe limp thru with special support from deep pockets. In the end I see them as something very special from back in the "good old days" but no longer having much of a role! Very much like the one or two room school house!!"

Well run business will survive but maybe not as we know/wish it to be – the "pure" historical war game store that carries multiple manufacturers in multiple scales over multiple eras (there are a ton of eras to choose from) that meets my unique wants. I can easily see mixed market stores existing in the future as some examples have been stayed above.

I realized that back when I moved to Saint Louis, after many frustrating years, that it was unreasonable for me to expect a B&M store to meet my varied interests, especially the near and dear niche ones. That's why mail order grew as it did and not just for historical figures – see Ground Zero Games as a example in SF – over the years. And it is good that it did.

If you have a LGS or, even better, a FLGS that meets your needs then seriously consider supporting it. Else learn to love home settings for games, local cons in store fronts of stagnant malls, and internet ordering. I try to enjoy both where possible. Others may not be so blessed. When I retire circa 2016 to New Mexico I may find myself in the situation some are currently. But I will continue to curse the painting, play the games, savor the stories and the friendships, and listen to/participate in the debates on whatever replaces/supplements TMP/LAF at that time.

Gracias,

Glenn

I have been following this thread with great interest. Firstly I think it is a brave thing that GHQ did to bring to the attention the cultural shift that has taken place in the wargaming market over the last 7-10 years, especially the last 1-2 years and I am interested to know its not just in Australia that it is happening.

Firstly, am I biased, you bet ya! I have always believed in supporting your LGS first and then if you cannot get the stock, support in country shops not in your local area and if there are none of these, then thirdly buy international. This principle I have followed steadfastly, long before I opened up my own Bricks and Mortar store. Or began my own manufacturing company – Siege Works Studios (Koenig Krieg and Flashpoint Miniatures)

"Support Your LGS" is my motto, even if it is only in paints, brushes, etc. If they do not play any games you like, but they do have tables, ask if you can put on some demo games ond play your game at the LGS occassionally. Sometimes it raises enough interest that the LGS can support your various gaming wants and desires.

Can you make a good living out of a wargaming shop? Yes. Will you ever get the money you deserve based on an hourly rate, probaly not, but you certainly can make a good living. My shop in Brisbane was just about to hit that mark of self sustainment after 2 years, just before I developed health issues and had to close the shop down at the end of the third year. It has taken 2 years to shake of the health issues and this year if I do not sell the business I shall look to making it a strong business again. However the business was able to get me a home loan, pay for it on a weekly basis, buy out Flashpoint Miniatures from the previous owner as well as buy out the previous version of Koenig Krieg from the previous owner and after I sold the house just recently, buy a brand new car cash as well as allow me to survive these last two years without any real income, whilst expanding my manufacturing business. So I think you can make money from an LGS. Its not easy work and there are always very long hours. Customers are never satisfied no matter how good your customer service is. Sometimes its simply because the manufacturers cannot get the products to you in good time.

Now although I did sell multiple historical lines in multiple scales, 10mm, 15mm and 25mm my bread and butter was always going to be the pop culture games. Anything Games Workshop (I personally could not stand playing Warhammer or 40k, loved their specialist games though!) and so I used to pay wages to young gamers betwen the ages of 18-24 unemployed or currently studying – and above the Industry award wage mind you, so that I did not have to play the games and run the tournaments). As well as GW any Card Games like Magic the Gathering, Warmachine, Flames of War etc are your pop culture games and big earners.

Yes I am ashamed to say it, but if the LGS wants to pay the $20-30 000 AUD per year for a decent sized retail space, electricity etc then he is always going to be forced to grab the games that work upon the Macdonalds principle, "Do you want fries with that" but naturally in a wargaming approach. If the company provides pretty packaging, rules, accessories, web support etc it is more likely to be pop than not and not what many wargamers like. A man must feed his family as they say!

That said, there has definately been a shift in games purchasing thinking. As much as it pains me to say it Online shopping is here to stay. My shop is online although I still do most of my business through the local community (as I always had a good a pretty good name for customer service and customer loyalty)and I have a very nice 6 by 6 metre airconditioned, tiled shop area in front of my home with stock, a games table and free tea and coffee and a lounge as well. But even though I am a technophobe who distrusts technology prefers face to face customer interaction, the old adage "if you can't beat em' join em" does ring true. We live in a global age of rising prices and wobbly economies.

However, access to the world markets is so much greater than ever before and these factors as well as socialnomics the pervasiveness of GW and the changes to ways of tinking and culture as we enter a new technology revolution (Twitter, Facebook, easier and faster web technology etc)has affected the wargaming community and those that stick rigidly and doggedly to the old ways will fall sadly and tragically by the wayside to the new technology business models.

I am personally not a fan of it, but there it is! Society has changed and the LGS and manufacturers have to change with it. Good old fashioned customer service and customer loyalty has mostly gone by the wayside to cheap market forces. Massive online companies like Maelstrom (yes it is also a shopfront as well)have set precedents by tempting gamers away from their LGS to the online market.

Furthermore, many Manufacturers and Distributors are now selling their products in their own retail sections of their websites at greatly reduced prices and free local and international shipping, thus further compounding the difficulties of the LGS, whose margins are never that great to begin with, but who must now compete with their own manufacturers and distributors in the retail market….

Such changes in business ethics as a result of the world wide web culture has changed local retail dynamics. Interestingly, most of the large wargame manufacturers etc are ex high ranking GW staff and the GW culture of selling(no not in overpricing yet, but in business ethics and business style)has pervaded the market. Before I go on many of these manufacturers are making great models and I only wish they were around when I had the B&M store open as I would have sold bucket loads… Anyway, some have made comment and observations that GW treats its retailers poorly and even sets up their own GW shops very close to what were successful Independent GW retailers. (Neither of these happened to me personally, so I cannot make comment, but I have heard of many situations where there may well have been a cicumstantial case for it being true).

Anyway, if one does accept that GW views on its retailers is less than other manufacturers and its staff have spread out into their own enterprises, no longer working for GW, then it makes sense that all the larger manufacturers that have come from a GW backgound may very well consider the same or similar tactics for selling their own products in their own shops/web shops as being a viable business model. Yes they will sell to retailers but at the same time they are competeing with their own retailers by such heavy discounting and this seems to have had an affect on the LGS around the world in the last few years as well as the large effect the Global Economy has had on local markets. Makes me glad I got out when I did at times….

What does one do in conclusion. Well everyone has the right to make money in the wargaming business. I know gamers tend not to think of their hobby as work (and rightly so if they do not want to lose that sense of magic they currently get from the hobby)but if a games business, whether Manufacturer, Distributor or LGS treated other professions like the gaming community can at times treat the gaming business, then everyone one of them would be up in arms about taking bread and butter from their own family's tables and why the Government, Union, etc should be doing something about it to keep their own jobs secure etc.

Naturally anybody that has been in the business long enough knows that no matter what the customer does or says its important to just smile and move on. Do not lose your temper, or act discourteously and not kick them out because they want to drop in just to tell you that they went and bought internationally something you stock and sell locally at a cheaper price from the manufacturer that sells to you the same product.

A Business in the gaming community knows that you have to roll with the punches and the times. Culture is changing and just because the old ways were great (Sigh) they are not always the way people want to do things anymore.

All said and done the LGS is not going to go away. One can make a good living. I think the it has been a very dark time in the last year or two for the LGS owners and I feel for them. Those that fall will be replaced, as every wargamer thinks its a great idea being a game shop owner or rules writer or gaming manufacturer and many will jump in head first and wonder why they are not a millionaire yet!

But other LGS stores will figure out the balance between the local and international market pressures that have rapidly befallen the world and they will bend during these bad times but not break and they will continue to try and support their Local communities as well as feed their own families and will come out of this bad climate stronger for it.

One FLGS that has survived for almost a decade is Gettysburg Miniature Soldiers owned and operated by John Zabawa. They are in a prime location along historic Gettysburg's tourist strip, and John was recently able to expand his store (and parking) by moving into an adjacent space previously occupied by a bus tour center. He is all historical, with a strong focus on 54mm toy soldiers and collectible figures. Gaming is secondary but still he carries a good line of Civil War 15mm figures, as well as some other periods.

Gettysburg Miniature Soldiers is well worth a visit during your next trip to the battlefield.

John is a good example of fiscal conservatism, customer service, knowing his customer base and market, and having the right location. Good basic small business management skills go a long way.

My nearest LGs is EUREKA Miniatures, on the opposite side of Melbourne to me. It's about a 90 to 105 minute drive to get there.
I visit whenever I can, and have driven the distance on a lazy Friday afternoon just to look at Nic's latest offerings. More often than not I leave with my credit card beaten severly.
Totally worth the trip though, as Nic and his team are a real pleasure to chat with. I often place online rders with Eureka also.
I do however purchase most of my stuff online now,…

A word that cropped up a couple of times in these posts is ‘customer' and no store of any kind can survive without enough of them. How many gamers are necessary to support a viable games store? What stock has a games store got to carry to satisfy the needs of all its customers so that it can retain their custom time and again? Take any reasonably populated area, and put a games shop in it, how many gamers living within a practical distance of the shop are there likely to be? I don't know the answer to these questions but I'll take a stab at them. I would say that a practical distance would be a maximum of say a 50 mile round trip, 25 miles each way, so we are looking at an area of approximately 2000 miles in which our gaming customers live. The club I belong to covers an area roughly that size and has a regular membership of about 30 gamers of which five just game 40K and one who only does naval gaming. Add to that those who don't care for clubs and we don't know about and double the number to 60 gamers in the area. OK call it 100 all-up why not, I am guessing at this figure anyway. I am sure that would still not be enough to support a games store and to satisfy even the members of my club you would need to stock lines from 6mm to 28mm in nearly every period you can think of and by most manufacturers, including vehicles, aircraft, ships, scenery and buildings. It would seem based on my very unscientific ‘study' that the viability of a games store in most circumstances is very questionable indeed, unless it diversifies into hobbies generally, and mail order where the competition is the manufacturers themselves and much greater I expect. I don't think there are enough of us.

Bill

Not 'local' but everytime I travel from the Midlands to the South East to visit my sister I always spend some money in the independent games shop in Broadstairs. This happens once every 1-2 years so I doubt he's keeping afloat on my custom

How many gamers are necessary to support a viable games store?

That will depend on the rent and other localized costs, of course, but the number I've heard bandied about for the US is that it takes a general population of at least 50,000 to support a game store, ON AVERAGE. Universities, long travel times, local cost of living, and other less tangible factors (such as the amount of "F" you get with the "LGS") can modify that up or down.

The bad news is that, for this calculation, even the partial/casual game stockers can count. Got a Barnes & Noble in town? Don't count on using D&D or WoD to bring in your customers. Got a GW store? They just ate *that* part of the local potential (despite their protestations in the negative, I might add).

So, my local loose conurbation (say, within 30 miles), consists of roughly half a million people, and includes three comic/game hybrids, four big-box book stores, a couple comic/CCG dealers, and at least one full-service hobby shop. The nearest GW is outside the area, but we're apparently on their short-list for "strip-mall" spots based on the sales at one of the hybrids.

Evidence suggests we're at capacity, as evey attempt to add a full-service game store to this area in the last decade has ultimately failed. Some failures were slow and painful, others quick and stupid. The shrinkage of Borders might change the equation a little, but that shrinkage is for economic reasons that may take the capacity away instead of freeing it up.