"Guard de Paris uniforms in Spain" Topic

I'm painting the Guard de Paris for myself for the first time. It is an interesting couple of regiments. The Guard de Paris was present at the French defeat at Bailen (interestingly, I just found out that Scipio won a victory at Bailen, then Baecula).

I always thought the Guard de Paris (Gdp) were in green coats and white trousers. Reading the excellent HOURTOULLE's "Soldiers and Uniforms of the Napoleonic Wars" last night (mostly looking at the pretty pictures), I see he has the GdP in white jackets in Spain in 1808 (page 57), but then in Green coats (1st Regiment) and Red coats (2nd Regiment) on page 59.

On page 59 the text also mentions that elements of the second regiment were already wearing the white coat.

I realise that from 1806 some French regiments were switched over to white coats, for economy, at one point, and later switched back. But I haven't paid much attention to the details as I'd never planned to model this transient uniform. I also understand that the royal army had white coats, and that it took some time to switch some regiments over to blue coats.

Can anyone fill me in on the story of the Guard de Paris uniforms? Why were some of the lads wearing white (if they were) at some point in Spain, and what was work at Bailen?

Interestingly, HOURTOULLE says that the GdP has voltigeurs and grenadiers in bear skins. That *has* to be modeled!

Knotel has them in the original uniform coats that were green with red facings (lapels, collars, cuffs and cuff flaps) for the 1st Regiment and red with green facings for the 2nd Regiment in 1808. They adopted the white uniforms after the Bailen losses were replaced. He has the voltiguers in shakos, but I've seen other sources that have them in carabinier bearskins. I've also seen sources vary as to whether the center companies wore bicornes or shakoes with the original uniform.

Rick

Thanks Rick. I have a plate with the second regiment center companies wearing bicornes in 1805. The associated plate for the first regiment goes from 1806-1812. It has the first regiment in green for 1807, then white for 1808.

I found that plate you mention in Elting. The other few sources I have show the Voltigeurs in carabinier bearskins, as you say.

From the story so far, it looks like the second regiment stayed in red, and the first switched from green to white in 1808. So I feel good about painting them in green for 1808.

I have Dave Allsop's minis to paint up for these two regiments, and they come with separate heads. I have grenadier's heads in bear skins, and voltigeurs in shakos. I think I will use some green stuff to convert some grenadier bear skins to carabinier, just for the cool factor of having two units with voltigeurs in bear skins.

Windrow & Embleton Military Dress of the Peninsular War have: green faced red and red faced green for the original battalions that were at Baylen, and white habit-vestes for the later unit raised in 1808 which served in northern Spain. The first regiment having green collars, cuffs, lapels and turnbacks, the second red.

Do you think that red, on the second regiment's jackets, is the same red as the Swiss have for their jackets?

Are these any use (assuming you haven't seen them already)?

link

picture

Looks to be roughly the same basic "middle" red as the Swiss.

Should be a colourful addition – would like to see some photos when you have finished…

Thanks for those plates. Hadn't seen them before.

Will definitely post pics when I'm done. These are Dave Allsop castings. I've already got some under the brush for the Irish Legion. Nice figures.

Haythornthwaite says some interesting stuff about them in 'Uniforms of the Peninsular War'. He says two battalions went into Spain with Murat but 700 out of 1,162 died in captivity after Bailen. A new detachment was sent to Spain in 1808 to participate in anti-guerilla operations and a there was an action at Aguilar de Campo (1811) where a small number of them successfully defended the local church against hundreds of guerillas (which sounds like it a good scenario for a skirmish game)

Haythornthwaite says that both the 1st and 2nd battalions of the second detachment sent to Spain wore white. The former with green facings and white cuff-flaps and the latter with red facings. He also suggests that it is possible that some members of the 2nd battalion wore the white uniform at Bailen.

Personally, I prefer the red and green uniforms so I'd stick with that.

Chortle,

The uniforms of both regiments changed in 1808.

1st regt from green with red facings to white with green facings.
2nd regt from red with green facings to white with red facings.

How long it took for the changes to take effect is anyone's guess I'd say but I am fairly confident that green uniforms were more likely to have been worn at Bailen.

Contemporary prints (Martinet) have centre companies in shakos by 1807 with the green uniform and it is likely I think that the changes to the shako from the hat were in common with the rest of the French army but saying ‘who wore what when' exactly is difficult. I would not expect to see hats with the white uniform though.

The light companies of the Garde de Paris were termed ‘chasseurs' and wore the light infantry carabinier-style bearskin. Both they and grenadiers of 1st and 2nd regiments are depicted in contemporary illustrations (Otto Manuscript)wearing their bearskins in 1807 when they were part of the Grande Armee en route to Poland.

Unfortunately the Otto artist doesn't show any center companies but he does depict line infantry in shakos which is interesting because I think most wore hats during the 1806 campaign.

Guy Dempsey wrote books on Martinet's plates and the Otto Manuscript. Well worth getting if you can.

Bill

Thanks, Bill. I'm going for the non white uniforms, and chasseurs in bearskins. I'll be painting two battalions of 36, each with a mounted officer, and a skirmish screen of six.

How did you manage to score some Dave Alsop figures?

It should be a very colorful and good looking regiment.

Hi Jim,

OG are selling them again. Or at least they were a few months ago. Russ said that he would dig out the molds if enough people were interested.

Cheers

Neil