"Armies of the Napoleonic Wars (Pen & Sword)" Topic

SJDonavan

I think you should accept that Mr. Hollins turned what should have been a comment against the reviews, which he is entitled to do, into a 5 star Vanity Review. But had he written it as a comment, as a good author would have done, he couldn't have awarded himself 5 stars. Good authors generally ignore neagtive reviews anyway. They let the book do the talking.

Sadly, Mr. Hollins Vanity Review shows a lack of confidence in the title and basically insults the other authors by suggesting that their work might not be considered good enough to sell the title.

However, the book does contains some good chapters, despite the limitations some of the authors were placed under. But the authors who ended up with a small amount of space, some with only 10 and 13 pages, might have been able to offer so much more, had all the authors been given an equal amount of pages. Mr. Hollins probably doesn't see a problem with the book because he ended up with the largest chapter containing 41 pages.

No I have not read the book, I have not had time as yet.

However, from what I have seen here from those who have I am stunned. For years hollins has bagged what he feels is dishonesty or poor academic work or accused other authors of unethical academic behaviour. But now that "he" is accused of the same he feels he has done nothing wrong and some of you agree??? you have got to be kidding me.

Gaz is right, this "Vanity Review" of hollins was completely dishonest and not worthy of an academic. I do not care that he stated up front he was a co-author, what he did was wrong. It was an attempt to boost sales of a book he was lucky to be included to write in, and a blatant attempt to dishonestly mislead potential buyers of the book by rating it highly.

It was no wonder Amazons removed it, and good on them for doing so. If you look at hollins comments both here and on amazons over the years how could anyone trust him academically after this current saga. He knows he did wrong and must live with it now. But you guys who think "balance" is called for here are blinded by what he actually attempted to do.

As for me jumping on him for it, your damned right I am going to jump on him. After years of his abuse and accusations of dishonesty he has to reap what he has planted.

He should immediately apologize for what he did.

It is probably unwise to publicise my view of this book but here goes.

I am not a "novice" in this area.
Nor am I an "authority".
I think I am somewhere in between.

The book does certainly cover some interesting material but its scope is as several have written too wide. Because of this I found it not entirely satisfying.

I congratulate the various authors. I know I could not emulate there feats. But I canot but help feel all of them have so much more in them.

I think I want the equivalent of the Duffy books on the Austrian and Prussian Seven Years War armies, not a precis on some very interesting Napoleonic ones.

I hope I have not offended anyone.

You're late to the party Shane. Did you have trouble climbing onto your high horse?

Hooray for Raducci, someone playing the ball! Now maybe we can more like this.

On the specific point, it is very hard to get anything going into real depth published. Publishers need the volume of sales, which they will not get on the "non-obvious" subjects, so it is only really by using opportunities like this that much of this material will see light of day. There has been a speciofic effort in the bibliography to flag up accessible material, but you will note that most of it is in German or Russian, which is consequently closed off to many readers. We will try to bring you more, but if this does not make progress, I doubt we will see much more than 1815 rehashes.

You're late to the party Shane. Did you have trouble climbing onto your high horse?

Better the high horse than the low dog.

Dear Ochoin
Duffy has only published his two volume work on the Austrian Army and the Armies of Frederick the Great 2nd edition. Alas nothing in the Napoleonic Era. There are many that call for specialist books but they are not commercial.

I published
- two volumes on the Prussian Infantry 1808-40,
- two volumes Russian Cossacks/Opolchenie,
- Saxon Artillery 1733.
- Memoir of a Russian Hussar

These have sold barely 100 copies each. Each are about 200 pages each heavily illustrated and go into more depth than other books on the subject in English. Often the illustrator makes more than the writer.

Then there are repints
- Reprint of Adye (1813) [40 copies sold]
- French Artillery to 1824 [8 copies sold]
- Swabey Diary [no copies sold] etc…

The return in time is about 10p per hour or less in writing them. Authors certainly do not make he money. Alas the writing has been not upon French or British Napoleonic subjects hence lack of sales.

That is the economic situation.

Stephen

Interesting statistics, Stephen.
I own some, but not all of your volumes.

I'm sure you aren't suggesting anyone would write a military history for fame or fortune?

And I cannot argue against you about the small market & publishers wanting to make money.

Yet Duffy did get his expensive works published.

So if you have a Duffy inside you, seek medical attentio….sorry, if you have a lengthy, encyclopedic and well written book in you, I urge you to accept the 10p per hour & get it printed.

A Napoleonic Duffy would be something.

I should add that, much like the book under discussion, I own several collections of Napoleonic "essays": Chandler, of course & the one featuring Rory Muir et al.

Such a collection exclusively on, say, the Poles or the Confederation, written by a 'Brain's Trust' could very well be a winner.

I just don't need something that follows the dictum, 'Never mind the quality just feel the width'.

raducci

That is the type of posting I was expecting, instead of the mass abuse for daring to write a negative but honest
review,and worse, people accepting Mr. Hollins 5 star Vanity Review.

The book does not live up to what Mr. Hollins claims and you are spot on, when you say the other authors could have offered so much more. But they were just not given the space, and Mr. Hollins knows it.

If Mr.Hollins was really concerning about updating what we know about the period, then he should have made sure the authors were given a level playing field. But if you get the biggest number of pages, you are not going to complain, are you?

It is a good little book that could have been much better. But people will buy Napoleonic titles anyway, even if the Armies title had never been published. And what a joke it is when Mr. Hollins makes out that the Napoleonic market will suffer if the title does not sell. No way!

The publishers who produced the book might be in trouble if it doesn't sell well, yes. There are plenty of publishers and plenty of Napoleonic titles on the way.

And I echo Dave Hollins: Hooray for Rad for steering this discussion away from attacks to actually speaking about books.

Mr. Hollins

You said 'we will try to bring you more'

Are you now admitting that you had more of a say in the creating of this book than just being one of 10 authors?

Could that be the reasoning why you got 41 pages while other authors got 10 and 13?

Dear Ochoin
> I'm sure you aren't suggesting anyone would write a
> military history for fame or fortune?
Of course not but it is good to see that my books are read and appreciated. Yes us authors get very precious with our children as can be seen here. My attitude is that was the best that I could do with the information that I had at the time. Yes I would love to look at producing revised 2nd editions but there is even less in the market for that.

>And I cannot argue against you about the small market &
>publishers wanting to make money.
I just thought I would bring this into context when he author would get 10% royalties. That is only £300.00 GBP on the book when it cost me more than that for the illustrations.

> So if you have a Duffy inside you, seek medical
> attentio….sorry, if you have a lengthy, encyclopedic and
> well written book in you, I urge you to accept the 10p
> per hour & get it printed.
Yes I have. Being that I have published since 2008, I have published in excess of 15 Military History Books. It is reasuring that at least a few have been read. Alas none can be considered thin in text or illustrations. This is where I must be going wrong.

Stephen

A Napoleonic Duffy would be something.

Stephen, surprising figures, I admire your honesty, hopefully the Austrian volumes will do better.

Maybe you need the likes of Gaz to promote your books, or one of Kevin's "error-ridden, but still recommended" reviews :¬))

"I urge you to accept the 10p per hour & get it printed." That is part of the problem – there is too expetation that "someone else" will do the work for next to nothing.

Dear Mark
It is hoped that the Austrian 7YW Books will do better. The first volume has had about 100 before it was published out of 150 for the first impression. This is far beyond expectations. This means that it has already outsold most of my other books before being launched.

I need to sell about 100 copies of each volume just to recoup the costs of the illustrations. Oh well I wanted to put together the best contemporary illustrations I could find.

Oh well I hope that it is well recieved. I will send you your copy next week as I have picked up a copy from the publisher for you. Again thanks for your asstance. It was much appreciated. The end result is good but I await comments.

As many allude there is almost nothing in Napoleonics at present for the author except compilations and 1815. I have spent the day in Cambridge and seen nothing of interest in the bookshops. It is lean times alas. Will there be a golden age.

Stephen

""I urge you to accept the 10p per hour & get it printed." That is part of the problem – there is too expetation that "someone else" will do the work for next to nothing."

You've lost me dave.
Are you urging me to write a book (puh-lease!)?
Subsidize Stephen (I do: have bought some of his books)?
Form a picket line outside publishing officers/bookstores(placards reading"Napoleonic authorship is the New Slavery")?

Sorry: it comes down to You (& others) write if you want. If they're good I'll buy.
Capitalism at work.

Mr. Hollins

I could take your not answering the question as a yes, which would explain a lot, especially why the reviews upset you so much.

Dear Ochoin
Very amusing. Well it is much harder to finish a book and get it published than write one.
Stephen

I agree. Wargamers seem to be a tight-fisted bunch who don't want to part with their money. This is reflected quite often here.

You're late to the party Shane. Did you have trouble climbing onto your high horse?

That is because I have a life and cannot spend a great deal of time here lately. However, what business is it of yours anyway?

As for climbing on my high horse. Your damned right I am. I have strong relationships with certain people on this board and when hollins abuses and insults their credibility and accuses them of unfounded crimes I am going to fight for my friends honor. What is wrong with that? Would you not do the same for your friends?

hollins left this forum a few years back and his abusive comments had ceased. Now that he has been back for the past year or so the accusations and vitriol from him has also returned with the same old tired personal attacks. If you want to condone his behaviour then fine but not me. When a friend of mine is in trouble I will fight by his side.

If I sound melodramatic I could not care less, hollins despicable acts here deserve to be retorted and there are some of us who can see through his cunning behaviour and are willing to "balance" the situation. If you can see what his comments are doing to others but yet do nothing about it here then you are condoning his abuse.

If I react to him as I do it is because I will not sit idle and just let him get away with it. I will fight fire with fire. hollin's behaviour on this forum is deplorable and should not be condoned.

"I agree. Wargamers seem to be a tight-fisted bunch who don't want to part with their money. This is reflected quite often here."

Maybe, Bill, but I'm Scottish & want value for my money.

Why haven't I bought Stephen's Saxon artillery book? I'm sure it's excellent but it doesn't interest me (his Russian books did).

Another volume on Waterloo (my favourite battle BTW)? No. It would have to be new ground & I think that unlikely.

'Armies of the Napoleonic Wars'? I did buy it but it is, as some others have said, lacking in depth.

I have & will again spend big bucks on volumes that meet my needs/interests.

It is, therefore, not so much a question of parsimony but simply of market forces at work.

BTW I am, again, going to try to ignore the sparring that goes on here.

Wish me luck 87)

ochoin deach

I don't think it is a matter of wargamers being tight fisted as much as spending the money on what they want, rather than buying titles, products etc, just because someone has produced them.

The money side is one of the reasons why I believe reviews are very important. Of course reviews are only the opinions of the customer who had bought the product, but they can help the wargamer-enthusiast gain a better insight on what he or she may be thinking of buying, rather than just accept the pre-sales hype.

Despite some people trying to convince us that the Napoleonic market is bad, there are plenty of titles on the way, so we can still pick and chose rather than panic buy and get everything that comes out.

You might already be aware of it but there are two interesting titles on the way. In May Robert Burnham's book Charging Against Wellington, is out which looks at the performance of the French cavalry in battles against Wellington's army. I think it may be intended to be a companion or foil to Ian Feltcher's Galloping at Everything, which is another good title to own.

In June I believe Ian Fletcher is bringing out The Peninsular War, Wellington's Battlefields Revisited. From what I can see, I think it is going to contain photographs of the battlefields, which should be great for both wargamers and enthusiasts and might make an excellent companion to the Peninsular Atlas title

I'm sure there are going to plenty more, including books on Waterloo, according to my conversations with authors (not those that attend this website sadly), so the market it healthy and will continue to give us plenty of choices. So don't believe those who try to fool us with messages of doom in that area.

Gaz,
I look forward to the Burnham book. He's an admirable scholar.

With regards to the Fletcher book, I've already decided to wait to see what it might be like before I spend any 'siller'.

I do read reviews & use them to help me make up my mind on purchases. And,like any consumer, I will buy "product" if I've sampled something I liked by the same author: a Gill, a Kiley, a Hollins etc, if the subject seems interesting.

I appreciate the heart & soul put into a literary work but
authors should remember that we are talking simple consumerism even in buying military history.

Who is Robert Burnham? I have heard of Ian Fletcher but not Burnham. Why is he an admirable scholar in particular?

Bill

If I am not mistaken he is the editor in chief at NSF.

General Brock, you are not mistaken, also one of the authors of the book British Army Against Napoleon

a very nice bloke and very knowledgeable, runs a tight ship at the NSF

ochoin deach

I enjoyed Ian Fletcher's book Galloping at Everything, although I disagreed with his view on one of the cavalry actions he described, which was discussed on another thread. But still worth having.

I usually try to see a product either in a bookshop or a library before parting with any money. I didn't do that with the Armies title, I took a chance. However, although I was disappointed with the end result, I probably would still have bought it because some of the chapters are worth reading.

And yes, as a customer, you can't buy every book that is produced, as much as you might want to, you have to pick and chose and see how far you can stretch your budget. And I think customer reviews, positive and negative, can often help you gain a better idea of what the product is really like, as opposed to the usual glowing descriptions given by the publishers and some authors.

I also like to read reviews before buying, but Amazon reviews are only useful for comic relief IMO.

A Twiningham

Some of the reviews have been very helpful to potential purchasers, especially those who may not be able to visit a book shop to view the book first. They give an insight into what they might be considering buying, both the positives and the negative aspects.

I think anything that gives a potential customer more of an idea on if the title lives up to its pre-sale hype, is certainly very welcome.

I agree. I just find it hard to locate these reviews on Amazon. If I didn't know about the long-standing feud between the Team Kiley and Team Hollins I might have actually put stock in the reviews of the book currently in question, for example. I find this sort of low chicanery happens with less frequency in other places.

I noticed that your note asking Kiley to substantioate his claims with sources, following my response to TMP, has gone unanswered. That is something else that goes on here and also goes to the validity of a "review".

Interesting looking at Amazon reviews and comments, some go back to 2007

Walsh/Kiley – poor reviews of Nap Armies

Kiley – poor review of Dawson Artillery

Walsh – glowing review of Kiley Artillery
Walsh – glowing review of Kiley Titans

Except one is a B Walsh the other J Walsh

no agenda then, no reviews of the other Nap armies book from the Walsh/Kiley duo why?

loads of deleted comments lol, except one poster.

ho hum

Graf Bretlach

The Amazon comments to my review were removed because they contained mostly abuse, nothing about the book.

And you seem to be forgetting that Mr. Hollins is only ONE of TEN authors! The book is not HIS work, it is THEIR work. So does that mean myself and Kevin Kiley have something against all 10? Sorry, that excuse doesn't wash.

And let me get this right. If I like a book I must not give it a positive review if it is not written by Mr. Hollins? Sorry but I am not a yes man. If I like a title I will say so, and I will do a postive review, if I feel like it, no matter who wrote it. The same goes with negative reviews.

I liked Kiley's books, hence the postive reviews. I was disappointed with the Armies book, in which Mr Hollins was only ONE author with ONE chapter out of TEN authors, but who also had the largest chapter in this case, compared to others who had a quarter of his page allocation, which was why I wrote a negative review. All the authors should have been given an equal playing field. It is interesting that this factor was not mentioned by Mr Hollins in his plug or in the pre-sales hype.

But if you and others want to come up with fantasy reasoning behind the reviews, that is your choice.

Graf Bretlach

I meant to ask why you left out my POSITIVE 4 STAR review of Mr. Hollins Austrian Commanders Osprey title on Amazon? What's the matter, didn't it fit in with your fantasy reasoning?

Graf B,

Looks a bit like a 'tag team' doesn't it:-)

Bill

This started back in June 2000 Dave's book on Marengo.

Kevin reviewed it and from that point on "the feud" started.

It did not start over rival books "Dave's Austrian
Artillery 2003" and "Kevin French Artillery 2006" big time
frame between books being published, but it did escalate.

Dave even admits this in another blog as the starting
point, his comments are dated March 12 2008. see site
befreiungskriege.wordpress and goes on to slag Kevin 's books
all through the blog.

Dave also slags Kevin's books on the Osprey blog, Amazon under
comments, ACG, and just about anywhere he can. I don't
however see the other party doing this.

So it makes one wonder after 11 years who has the axe to
grind. Sure is clear in my mind.

Just my opinion
James

Gazz maybe I didn't see that review? possibly confusion between the two Walsh's, well done if you did.

I did see a review of R. Pawley book by one of the Walsh's, which i didn't include, good review to which i agree.

General Brock – not seen those you mention, but will have a look, thanks

J is John, B is his wife.

Graf Bretlach

Thank you for that. And if the Armies book had not disappointed me, I would not have written a negative review. It is, after all, only my opinion. And as I keep saying, but which sadly. Mr. Hollins can't accept, the book contained too many armies for the small amount of pages and more so because the authors were not given an equal playing field.

Some of the chapters are really good and had it contained only 5 armies or if each author had been given 25 pages each, rather than one with 41 and others with 10 or 13, then I'm sure I would not have been as disappointed and would probably have given it a far higher star rating.

So for those a bit slow on the forum, how many pages did each author get, to which army, how many words, how many armies are included, and in your opinion Gazzola do you think this was a fair split between authors, what was the total page count?

just want to be sure on this, might be worth repeating on the other related threads as well just in case.

Originally, it was 20K for Uk and France, 17K for Austria and (I think) 15K for Prussia and Russia with smaller sections for the other armies. I think (but I have not spoken to the editor or publisher) that a decision was taken late on to reduce the book to 288pp, but that the most practical way to do this was to reduce the Uk and French sections, written by the editor. The Austrian chapter also looks large, because I used extra space (albeit cutting the word count to 16,700 words) include the unit titles, which are a mess in the Ospreys and often queried.

It seems reasonable if you are trying to appeal to veteran readers as wel as new people, as you could write 50K on Uk and France to hear "nothing new in that". The original distribution reflected the relative interest and contributions, but the end form does have the virtue of reflecting more of the new work in it and being attractive to UK/Fr fans. We can see that from the teddy-throwing. There is of course plenty available elsewhere on UK and Fr, albeit not much new work has been done on them in the past 20 years. You will not please everyone, but the book must appeal to a wide audience.

I was reading about the US biopic "The Kennedys" – seems a lot of people have been complaining that it does not fit their view of this family and pressure from advertisers and Keepers of the True Flame has pushed it off the Hitler (sorry, History Channel) to a minor one, which is experiencing rising audiences. It seems that these attempts to silence another view without an attempt to discuss the issues is not restricted to Naps!

Sorry Dave you missed my sense of humour.

Not really – I was trying to make a comparison with the campaign around The Kennedys without being noticed too much!

Graf Bretlach

I have given the pages numbers for each chapter in an earlier posting on page 3 of this thread.

The book tries to cover 10 armies, plus an introduction to the period covering pages 1-14, plus 10 pages on book lists, and an 8 page index. Taking those pages away leaves just 239 pages in which to cover 10 armies.

Out of 239 pages, one author (Austrian chapter) gets 41 pages, another (Armies of the Confederation of the Rhine chapter)gets 38 pages and a third author (Prussian chapter)gets 29 pages. That is 3 authors getting 108 pages out of 239, leaving just 131 for the other 7 authors. But even the remaining pages are not divided equally because the author of the Italian chapter only gets 10 pages.

You asked if I think this was a fair split between the authors. My answer is no. And how is someone with 10 pages supposed to give the reader an equal update as with someone who gets 41 pages? It is not the authors fault since some of the chapters are really good, considering the limitations some of them were under. The book contains too many armies and not an equal playing field.

As for the confusion over the reviews with John Walsh and B.Davout Walsh, I have requested Amazon to either rename them as John Walsh or delete them. I don't mind them being deleted because it has been some years since they were written and the books will sell themselves anyway. And my 4 star review of Mr Hollins Austrian Commanders is safe because it has John Walsh as the reviewer.

I thought it was odd at first because a review in 2004 had John Walsh named as the reviewer, but one later, in 2007 had B.Davout Walsh. But it turns out that I had not checked when writing the some of the reviews which Amazon page I was on. I was on my wife's so it came up as B.Davout Walsh.

It is a shame that the comments section to the Armies book has been removed because you can see that I did it again, several times. I wrote replies to comments on my wife's Amazon page and they came up as B. Walsh. When I spotted it I had to delete the reply comments and write them again on my Amazon page. Annoyingly I had to do this several times.
Anyway, as I say, I have notified Amazon and they should either be renaming them or deleting them, whichever they decide. And all future reviews and comments will have John Walsh, providing I don't forget to check whose Amazon page I am on.

Err thank you Gazzola, you missed my humour too, oh well.

Thanks for the wife info, although Dave managed it in a lot less words.

must be an internet thing.

Graf Bretlach

I think there is a lot of humour in the whole affair, to be honest, especially Mr Hollins getting so hot under the collar over two reviews. Good authors laugh them off and let the book do the selling. For some odd reason. Mr. Hollins can't do that? Not sure if that is a laughing or crying matter though?

How can you let the book sell itself when you are continuously criticizing it and one of the authors, at some point you are going to have to let go.

at some point you are going to have to let go.

but yet you also continue to discuss the topic also…

just as anyone who adds a post to this thread.