"Armies of the Napoleonic Wars (Pen & Sword)" Topic

Perhaps it will help readers of these posts is they had a better description of the structure of the title. It was also mentioned by Mr. Holins that some of the chapters may have been cut down due to other publications already being available, and that the primary aim of the book was to be an introduction and aimed at novices to the period, so I have listed just the Osprey titles that relate to each chapter and army, in order to see which books already had the most published by just one publisher alone. And Osprey are always reprinting their titles, so will generally always be available. Plus you can get them online and at wargame shows.

As will seen from the breakdown below, the Italian, Portuguese and Spanish Armies were crying out for more space.

Between pages 146 and 147, 16 pages black & white prints of Napoleonic action scenes and various regiments – 2 images images per page:
12 images depicting the French
3 depicting the Russians
4 depicting the Austrians
5 depicing the Prussians
4 depicting the British
2 depicting the Bavarians
2 depicting the Saxons
3 depicting the Italians

Text:

Pages 1-13 – Very brief Introduction to the Napoleonic Wars

pages 14-35 – The French Army by Gregory Fremont-Barnes
(available-over 20 Osprey titles covering all
aspects of the French army, Guard and Line)

pages 36-56 – The Russian Army by Alexander Mikaberidze
(4 Osprey titles available)

pages 57-97 – The Austrian Army by David Hollins
(8 Osprey titles, many by same author)

pages 98-126 -The Prussian Army by Oliver Schmidt
(7 Osprey titles)

pages 127-149 – The British Army by Gregory Fremont-Barnes
(18 Osprey titles)

pages 150-187-Armies Confederation of the Rhine by John Gill
(5 Osprey titles on some of the COR states)

pages 188-211 – The Spanish Army by Charles Esdaile
(3 osprey titles + 1 on Guerrillas)

pages 212-229 – The Portuguese Army by Malyn Newitt
(3 Osprey titles)

pages 230-243 – Army Duchy of Warsaw by Jaroslaw Czubaty
(1 Osprey title)

pages 244-253 – Army Kingdom of Italy by Frederick Schneid
(1 osprey title)

Pages 254-263- Further Reading lists

pages 264-271-Index

Would you consider Osprey books to be worthwhile publications? I have only one or two in my collection and have not been impressed with them.

Imperiale,

Ospreys are variable in quality. Personally I fins anything by Rene Chartrand well worth the price, for example.

Gazzola,

Please give it a rest. I have no dog in this fight, but from personal experience I find that "personalities" such as youself drive novices away from Napoleonics far more readily than one "bad" book.

Ospreys do vary, although the more recent ones are better due to source access. However, much of the material could only have entered the public domain through them.

I can see the problems for the book world, esp as our biggest shop chain is in trouble at the moment, but it would be shortsighted for enthusiasts to stop buying. If Amazon became the only major outlet, the margins would be so tight that all the Nap world would see would be biogs of N & Wellington, books on the Imp Guard and Waterloo and that would be it.

Ospreys do vary – some are excellent – good authors are
Chartrand, Crowdy, Hollins, Schmidt, Pawly.

Imperiale

I think it depends on what you are looking for. But I agree with von Winterfeldt and Dave Hollins, because some of the Osprey titles are good. Some have really useful information and, in some cases, such as the Armies book, they contain more information on some areas. But full size books like those produced by Gill and Mikaberidze and titles covering one army, would obviously be more preferable, if you were looking for more detail.

Dave Hollins

I disagree completely. The market may be bad, so we need new exciting titles to attract new customers and to persuade people who already own large collections, to buy more – but producing more 'introduction' type publications will only help kill the market.

And without online firms like Amazon, there might not be a Napoleonic market place at all. Their prices are usually always much lower so customers can buy more titles. That attracts new customers, who would normally be driven away by high prices. Publishers need to understand what the customers want, rather than dictate what they think they should have.

A Twiningham

Firstly, not to worry. I think I've said all I want to say about the book. The book's success or failure will be in its own hands, or rather pages. If it becomes a success, great, it might mean more titles in the future, although hopefully not of the same type. But if it fails, it won't be unexpected but it will be a wasted opportunity.

However, I don't think someone who challenges authors or who writes a review giving his opinion of a title will drive novices away. Would they be attracted to a site that only accepts the postings of yes men? And the attacks and personal abuse of the yes men on this site will probably drive more people away than I ever will, so perhaps you should have a word with them and suggest they act like gentlemen for a change.

I want to see more Napoleonic titles being published, not less, but I certainly do not want to see more like the Armies book, which, in my mind, is a step backwards. But customers must be allowed to say what they feel about a title, even it upsets some of the authors? Most good authors can take critisism, but obviously, some like to give it but certainly can't take it.

I think it is a good thing to let novices know what is available, but more importantly, to suggest that they ignore the usual pre-sales hype, and to check out what people who have bought the products are saying and what they find, so that they have a better idea of what they might end up with, rather than end up disappointed by following the crowd or just accepting the views of the yes men.

>"….."personalities" such as youself drive novices away from Napoleonics far more readily than one "bad" book.<

True enough. Fortunately there are not many of them but unfortunately they have 'loud voices'.

XV Brigade

That's an insult to novices actually, if you think about it. Novices or not, do you really think they would only want to attend sites that are full of yes men? Do you not think that they can decide and think for themselves and want to see people voicing their opinions freely? They can decide themselves if they agree with people's reviews or postings, they don't need you or anyone else to hold their hands. However, they may, of course be put off by the childish attacks and abuse thrown at posters who 'dare' to voice their opinions, especially if they disagree with the yes men and their heroes. Perhaps the yes men should stop doing it. And really, what a silly thing to say. How on earth can anyone have a 'loud' voice when posting? All posters are given an equal playing field.

This is what we are up against

link

Mr. Hollins silly belief that the Napoleonic market is threatened by non-Napoleonic titles, is plain stupid and totally out of touch with reality. Those interested in the Napoleonic period will still buy books concerning the period, no matter what else is out there, as indeed they do now. So WE are not up against anything! But it is up to US to improve what future titles will become available. That is the power of the buyer, which publishers should take note of.

And if Mr. Hollins really wants Napoleonic titles and the Napoleonic market to remain strong, he should do his utmost from now on to make sure titles like the Armies book are not repeated. He should try and promote books of the type produced by good authors like, Gill, Mikaberidze and Esdaile, authors with a proven track record in producing what enthusiasts and wargamers want.

The Napoleonic market already had introduction type titles, so, if the market is weak or threatened, why did he support yet another one, and one that basically repeats what we already know or can find in other titles or on the web? We need strong, interesting titles that cover new areas and armies and their campaigns, such as titles on the Italians, the Polish, the Portuguese, the Spanish and, to some extent the Russians. To blame a failing market, if indeed it is failing, on other forms of books being offered, is a desparate denial of the truth.

"How on earth can anyone have a 'loud' voice when posting?"

Well said Gazzola! As you have so ably proved one cannot speak with a loud voice when posting. One can however both bleat and whine. Keep it up sir! I like the cut of your jib.

As someone who is more or less interested in Napoleonics, but not to the degree as many here, personally I am happier with books that introduce a number of armies, as this one apparently does, rather than more detailed tomes on individual armies.

I would also guess that if you are looking at the overall Napoleonic book market, there are far more people out there with a vague interest rather than detailed interest in the period, and so introductory books will have a bigger potential market appeal.

And, sorry, but I can't get too het up about differences in page numbers. Numbers of pages and numbers of words do not equate to the content contained therein.

Dave, your link is interesting, but not surprising.

There are also some books on the odder aspects of the Napoleonic period, as with Nazis. There's the one about Napoleon's horse, Marengo, for instance (actually quite a readable and interesting book). And another about the dancing before Waterloo (though I haven't read that one to see if it goes any deeper than the steps used at the ball). Not to mention the book about Chicken Marengo!

If book publishing was as easy and economical in the 1850s as it is now, and there was a steam-powered History Channel back then, I bet we would have seen a similar fascination with things Napoleonic!

I wouldn't mind betting that next to books about the Third Reich that ones about the First Empire come in a pretty close second today, let alone in the days of 'steam television'.

Before the 'shouting' starts there was, of course, actually no such thing as 'steam television' in the 1850s but there is always the danger of words being taken literally on this site, syntax and context notwithstanding.

Although it is more likely that such posts are examples of pretentious ignorance, one cannot be sure these days if it is not honest ignorance.

Arteis is also quite right about counting words and pages which, for those who remember the 1960s British sitcom about the Jewish and Irish tailors, is a case of "never mind the quality feel the width".

It is interesting that judging by the thread below this and some of the other questions that are asked on this very forum that there is a need for primers such as the book under discussion here.

Bill

Arteis, I think the book you a referring to may be 'Dancing into Battle' by Nick Foulkes, which is a social history of the build up to Waterloo focussing particularly on the English upper classes in Brussels. It's a fascinating book and is well worth reading even if your interests lie more with military than social history. The one thing it doesn't do is teach you any dance steps.

Bill is right about the need for introduction books, but to gain a wide enough audience it does need to reflect what has gone on over the last 20 years for the veterans too. There is no real market for single army books, outside of Uk and France, hence the reduced size of those original chapters, but WETG already exists as a follow-on for Confederation fans.

Arteis

I think there are quite few enthusiats and wargamers who have gone past the introduction stage. But if that is the level of your interest, then obviously another introduction type title will interest you more than detailed book. If you don't already own it, there is another introduction to Armies of the Napoleonic Wars, which is illustrated and has been given 4 star reviews on Amazon, so it might well be worth your viewing. Personally, I look forward to more exciting and hopefully more detailed titles such as the forthcoming book Fighting Against Wellington by Robert Burham, due out in May. Introduction tiles are two a penny but everyone has their own tastes and levels. And of course, the more Napoleonic titles that sell, the better for us all.

SJDonovan

If pointing out faults with titles and offering the opinion and reviews of both a customer and an enthusiast, is 'bleating and whining', then prepare youself for more 'bleating and whining', and not just from me.

Dave Hollins

I would only agree with you that there is a need for introduction type titles, if there were none already available. Perhaps you or whoever came up with the idea, did not check out the market properly beforehand, since similar introduction type titles already exist and some some have quite high star ratings.

And really, no real market for single army titles? Who are you trying to fool again? Are you really trying to convince us that customers would prefer the Armies title to a whole book on the Austrian Army or the Russian Army or The Confederation of the Rhine Armies, etc. I do hope you have no say in future publications, if that really is your mindset!

In case it has not been spotted this is the reason for my extra thread on how low can an author go to sell a book, because, just when you think things have settled down and the future of the book will depend on its own merits, Mr. Hollins stoops to an unbelieveable low level by writing himself a 5 start review on Amazon UK.

If the book was selling okay, as he boasted not so long ago, why such a desparate act and an extremely low one at that. But no, instead of attaching a comment to mine or Mr. Kiley's reviews, he has written himself a 5 star review!

Imagine if all authors now start writing themselves 5 star reviews! But they have decent morals and integrity, which this review suggests Mr. Hollins does not. And can you imagine the uproar, especially from Mr. Hollins, if Kevin Kiley wrote himself a 5 start review!

Mr. Hollins should apologise now and have the disgraceful vanity ridden review removed.

As for the book istelf, if it is good enough, it will sell itself. If it doesn't sell as well as expected, then that proves we have too many of the same and don't need any more.

grow up – if you hadn't written your trashing review in the first place, it would not be necessary. Go and suck up to Kiley iof you wish – he trashes rival work, just because he made his own refs up! When you complain about that kind of thing, perhaps the adults round here might take some notice.

Dave Hollins

Calm down, calm down!

But really, you can't blame negative reviews for your disgraceful actions.

It is NEVER necessary for an author to publish a VANITY REVIEW and you know it! Good and decent authors do not do such things. They are above it. You even boasted that the book was selling well, so why did you really do it? It was the act of a desparate man, and one who should now be shunned and considered as a disgrace. I just hope the other authors do not get tarred by your vanity act, which may indeed affect sales, but not in the way you hoped.

You talk of adults but don't act like one. You should take a leaf out of how good authors react to negative reviews, you should have let the book sell itself.

Amazon have removed Mr. Hollins review, and rightly so. It is an insult to the other authors of the title because it makes out the book wouldn't sell without his 5 star Vanity Review. The book has good authors and their excellent work will sell the title, not vain attempts to bump up the star rating.

As I mentioned on the other thread, I would still buy Mr. Hollins a pint if I met him in a pub. However, I will still offer criticism, if criticism is due. And I hope Mr. Hollins takes this like an adult and that there will be no further need for postings concerning the title, which I hope really sells well.

"Firstly, not to worry. I think I've said all I want to say about the book. "……..
Apart from the next eight of your posts and the new thread you started. hahahahahahahaha

Gazolla seems to have time on his hands. I suspect he is playing truant:-)

Bill

badwargamer

Nice to see you on this thread as well as the other one.

Sadly, the postings have been more about the fantasy of people wanting to believe I dislike Mr Hollins, rather than saying anything at all about the actual book, which is a shame. But if people accuse me of disliking Mr. Hollins, who I have never met, are you saying that I should not reply and tell them they are wrong? Then again, I suppose I should ignore them and let them live in their fantasy world.

As I said on the other thread, the only thing I dislike about Mr. Hollins, is his attitude to those who dare to write negative reviews or criticise his work or postings, because he does not reply and is why he was labelled a literary coward by others.

But I'm sure both threads have kept you entertained and appears to have made you laugh. And I'm sure there will be more laughter on the way.

XV Brigada

Well, people have said I look young for my age. But playing truant? No, sorry, I'm not that young.

But really, it does not take up that much time reading a few posts or writing them. Well, not for me. Perhaps it takes longer for you to do so, I don't know?

But if people make postings that concern me, I think I have a right to reply or ignore them. I've been replying so far, but perhaps it is best to consider ignoring them from now on, since very few postings, if any, have reflected in any way about the book, which is a shame.

Gaz….you can't ignore the posts…..you love replying and seeing your posts…you know you couldn't possibly end the thread here and ignore what is said. There is no chance whatsoever of you doing so. You have to have the last word.

badwargamer

I can't ignore the postings! That's a good one. Keep it up. Highly entertaining. Have you read the book by the way?

The dislike of authors who praise their own works in reviews is not new, as can be seen in an interesting article from 2002:

type in the following:

Authors who write their own five-star reviews – Telelgraph

It states clearly why they did so

Point proven.

And yes I have read it.

Mr Hollins I congratulate you on the publication of your work on the Austrians. You should be rightfully proud. However, as you will receive a financial benefit for the publication of the book, I believe you should consider being a contributing member of TMP. This is a requirement of all those wishing to advertise their products.

I didn't get much and it was a small payment up front, as it is a multi-author work. I do however contribute a considerable amount of knowledge, which has taken much time and cost to acquire.

Oldenbarnvelt

Any author would be proud to see his work in print. But he should be ashamed to have written a 5 star Vanity Review on his own work. To stoop so low, you shouldn't really be surprised by his reply to your request.

I think Gazzola is doing the most advertising for this book here on TMP, Oldenbarnevelt! I'm now becoming intrigued enough by his comments to consider buying a copy for myself.

Arteis

Please do buy a copy. The Confederation of the Rhine chapter is very good. It confirms my views on the mythical German unity that was so hotly discussed not so long ago. Well worth reading.

But Gill and two other authors were given almost 50% of the books pages, which sadly didn't leave much for the other 7 authors. It is very difficult to offer a detailed update or updated introduction or overview or whatever Mr. Hollins is calling it these days, when one author get 10 pages and another gets 41. But the authors of the smaller chapters did very well, considering the limited space they were allocated.

My negative review was written because the book contained too many armies for the number of pages it had, especially when the introduction, notes and book lists cut down the actual 10 armies descriptions to 250 pages. 10 armies in 250 pages, with one army getting 41 pages.

Mr.Hollins is only one of the ten authors, nothing more. He just happened to have the most pages. That's why his chapter was compared to the Italian chapter which had a quarter of what he was allocated. The fact that Mr. Hollins thinks I wrote the review in spite, suggests he is full of his own self-importance. But, as I say, he is just one of 10 authors.

So yes, by all means, buy it. I'm sure you will find some of the chapters interesting. Sadly, others will just offer you what you probably already know or have in other titles.

Gazzola

Charles Esdaile has written more than just '3 Ospreys + 1 Guerrilla'. From the top of my head, he wrote one book on the Spanish Army, in 1988; one about the Duke of Wellington, in 1989; one on the Napoleonic Wars, from a military point of view, in the 90s (I don't remember the exact date); another on the Peninsular War -and a heavy one, by the way-, that was published in 2002; the one on the Guerrillas, in 2005; and other on the international relations in the Napoleonic Wars, that has been published in 2008, if I remember correctly. Plus several articles, conferences, ecc, in scholar journals, and edited a couple of collective works on the war in Spain.

As much as I disagree with most of Mr. Esdaile's analysis, I would be making a disservice to him if I wouldn't recognise that he is one of the most prolific and interesting historians of the war in Spain and Portugal, of the last twenty years.

I understand that your intention was just to link the authors to their Osprey's books, but I believe that a better option would have been to mention the actual scholarship of the author mentioned.

Best regards

Gazzola,

The "John Elton" name is a Hofschroer alias.

basileus66

Yes, I was just referring to Opsrey titles as an example.

I am well aware of Dr. Esdaile's books. I have most of them and, by coincidence, his book Fighting Napoleon arrived today.

If I had mentioned the full publishing titles of the authors, apart from Hollins and Gregory-Barnes, who I believe only had Osprey titles to their names, until the Armies title, the list of published works would have been quite considerable. And yet they still received less pages in the Armies title.

Rick Hensley

Well, I did think it was odd, especially when none of his Amazon comments said anything about the book. It was just pure abuse. And that after I said in the German Victory thread that I liked his books! But you have to laugh, don't you.

Rick, You are stating a well-known fact!!

hollins, I thought very low of you before your "book review" ..of your own book but now…..well

you have lost all credibility that I felt might of still lingered in you. Such a thing should condemn you to never writing again. That was totally unethical and immoral.

I see we have all three stooges present now:-)

Bill

Hey, don't go bringing the Three Stooges into this. I like those guys.

I see we have all three stooges present now:-)

Rude, true, but oh so ironic.

@Shane Devries

Did you actually read what Dave Hollins wrote in his Amazon review? I'm guessing from your reaction that you haven't actually seen it.

He stated right up front that he was one of the authors of the book and then explained his reasons for writing it.

I can't see how what he did was either unethical or immoral.

Why look at the facts when a cheap slur will do – I notice there is no critism of the vitriolic campaign and indeed the damage to publishing that this sort of thing can do. It is no good moaning about a lack of single subject books, if publishers think they cannot shift a survey book, which ought to have a wider appeal.

I notice there is no critism of the vitriolic campaign and indeed the damage to publishing that this sort of thing can do

Says the man who regularly publicly slags off other authors…