"Newbie... needs lots of guidance!" Topic

Hey guys,

I'm brand new to war gaming…been running around on some of the other boards here, trying to figure things out. I have some questions that might be best suited to this board…

I've never played an "official" RPG or War game before. I'm interested in the Dungeon style games with elves, dwarves, rangers, wizards, and the like…However, I'm more into the idea of having two "groups" fighting it out in a castle/ dungeon, rather than having a DM and single character RPG.

Bear in mind I'll initially be playing with my son,(who is 7, but fully capable of learning fairly difficult rules)…

We have some miniatures (28mm) and I want to build some buildings/terrain/dungeons…

Where do we start? What is a good game to learn the basics from? Where do you find them?

Thanks for any advice!

Here's some simple (and cheap!) historical stuff.

juniorgeneral.org

For some free rules…

link

Well its fun to develop your own to see if he likes playing first.

I had a system of players attacked with a d10 and other monsters attacked with other dice based on toughness.

simple roll and higher number wins. Hits could be kept track of on paper or counter die.

You could team up by adding dice together against a target or attack seperately.

good basic type of learn rules and movement then search around for a more complcated system

A friends son wrote a game him and his friends played. It was pretty detailed with ranges and hits it was fun.

Take a look at GW's Lord of the Rings Strategy Battle Game for inspiration. Although you already have some miniatures, the Mines of Moria boxed set is a terrific deal, includes a few suitable dungeon terrain pieces and of course the entire Fellowship, a bunch of goblins and a cave troll ("They have a cave troll!"). But the best part I think are the introductory scenarios, which guide you through learning the different elements of the game (movement and basic melee, then shooting, then magic, and so on) while being fun little quick games in their own right. The system itself is easy to learn even without the scenarios, and it's not hard to assign stats to non-LotR figs.

I haven't played it, but a lot of people here seem to like A Song of Blades and Heroes from Ganesha as a fantasy skirmish system.

A great "let's just fight" game for you son would also be Hasbro's Heroscape, but it has dedicated figs and dice, and may have recently gone OOP.

If you'd like a more cooperative "Dungeon Crawl" game, you might look at Wizard of the Coast's new boardgame approach to D&D, Castle Ravenloft and (reportedly better) the very, very new Wrath of Ashardalon. Fans rave about 'em, and they don't require a DM. link (I'm certainly tempted by it, especially as I found Descent to be a major disappointment.)

Those are what come to the top of my head.

Google will help you track down all of them. Ganesha advertises on TMP, so look through the Advertisers Directory. Games Workshop sells direct, or you can find both of the others on Amazon.

A good easy (but fairly deep) game with dungeon rules is Song of Blades and Heroes. I play it with my 7 year old daughter.

ganeshagames.net/fantasy

Get the pdf of Song of Blades and Heroes and if you want rules for dungeon crawls, buy their expansion rules, Song of Gold and Darkness. They are short, so don't be worried about wasting a bunch of ink and paper printing them.

Here are some pics of my daughter and I playing it. I'm using Dungeon Tiles from Wizards of the Coast (D&D's publisher) for the dungeon.

link

Edit: I'll also second Parzival's other recommendations, I've played the LoTR game and it's okay. But the Mines of Moria set is indeed pretty cool.

I also have the Ravenloft game and it's excellent. It's cooperative play, meaning it's the players against the game, not each other. The plastic minis it comes with are pretty good, especially the monsters and will paint up nicely if you wish.

Tabletop: I actually did just that! I recently developed a game for his 70+ collection of 90mm knights, etc and we called it Warriors and Wizards. But it's based on a large 4x8 gridded board and moves/ranges are measured in spaces rather than inches. Attacks and defending are dice based, and we have about 10 spells the wizards can attempt.

In short, he loves it! And so do I… :)

I'm looking to "shrink" the game to 28mm to reduce the space necessary to play. Right now, half my garage is a gameroom. We bought a box each of GW LOTR Wood elves, Mordor Orcs, Rangers, and The Last Alliance. I've been eyeing that Mines of Moria set, but it's about $80 USD on Amazon…Also, I'm not sure if it would work with a "dungeon" setting…

Bart

Song of Blades and Heroes is a good game. There are some free rulesets out there too.

The Ravenloft Board Game seems to be ideal for you as a 'gateway' game…

I'll add my vote for Song of Blades and Heroes. I play it with my eight-year-old son and he loves it. Simple rules, use any miniatures, dirt cheap and can be played in a small space.

There is a dungeon crawl add-on that's terrific. You can order the PDF from Ganesha Game's website.

The nice thing about SONG is that it is a system, with a lot of expansions: King Arthur, for instance. Once you have the basics down it is easy to go different directions or make up your own.

However, Bart, now I read your later post, it seems that GW's LOTR rules might be more what you are after than SONG.

You'll enjoy either game, I think.

Bart, if you already have the GW LotR figs, just see if you can find a rulebook cheap. Lots of people sell off or give away the small paperback that comes with the box set, or you might be able to find one from the earlier boxed sets, The Fellowship of the Ring, The Two Towers, or The Return of the King dirt cheap on eBay— or ask in the TMP Marketplace on the left side of the front page. These books list the stats for most of the figs you already have. For dungeon bits, just do a little searching through the archives here for recommendations.

Which of the rulesets mentioned above are meant for individually based figures and which ones require units?

So far I'm looking at:

GW's LOTR
Armies of Arcana
Pride of Lions
Song of Blades and Heroes
Basic Fantasy Impetus
Rally Round the King
Castle Ravenloft
Wrath or Ashardalon

LOTR and Song of Blades and Heroes are individually based.

Castle Ravenloft and Wrath of Ashardalon are board games and come with all the pieces required, but the pieces are individually based. Just need some paint.

The others I can't speak for.

Song of Blades lets you use any fantasy figures which is always a bonus to me plus its very easy to pick up.

Mick

<q.A great "let's just fight" game for you son would also be Hasbro's Heroscape, but it has dedicated figs and dice, and may have recently gone OOP.

My FLGS tells me that there is plenty in the distribution pipeline.

PRIDE OF LIONS is units (18 close order infantry, for example) for mass battles.

Something worth looking at is GW's Mordheim skirmish game. The rules and some of the supplementary material are free downloads from GW, and you can find lots of decent fan-based material on the web as well. It is a fantasy skirmish game where each player normally runs from six to fourteen models. The rules are made for competitive games, but frankly we play it collaboratively.

link

I another vote for Song. It is a fun system.

Cheers, Xin

Dungeons and Dragons, 3rd edition, 3.5 edition, and now 4th edition, became far more a miniatures skirmish game than pure RPG--or so say many detractors. You can make a heck of a good skirmish system from the 3.5 edition combat rules using the Player's Handbook and maybe the Miniatures Handbook. This would also allow you to dip your toe in RPG aspects as well.

D&D 3.0 et al. is among the more complex RPG's out there, though, so not something to recommend to a newbie wanting to start with RPG's. Free "retroclones" on the internet like Labyrinth Lord or such are better for that. The universe of RPG's is vast and various.

Also, go to rpg.net for a full-blown discussion board for all things RPG. Your could post this question in the "tabletop roleplaying" subforum or the "D&D/clones" subforum and get good responses.

Hi Bart,

Let me throw WEGS Old Skool into the mix for your consideration. It's a simple sword-n-sorcery system for minis. It can handle traditional "GM vs. Players" or group play that you mention.

I recently developed a game for his 70+ collection of 90mm knights, etc and we called it Warriors and Wizards. But it's based on a large 4x8 gridded board and moves/ranges are measured in spaces rather than inches. Attacks and defending are dice based, and we have about 10 spells the wizards can attempt.

WEGS Old Skool works in "squares", too. Movement, spell range, attacks are all based around traditonal battlemat gaming. Easily convertable to inches, but we talk in squares.

Details over at GameWick.com

Larry

(Next week I'll be posting some notes on character generation here. This will give you an idea of the way it rolls out).

I'll add my vote to Song of Blades as well. Great fun, easy and adaptable.

Song is good for skirmishes, but it looks like you have a lot of models. If you want to be able to use all your cool toys at once, you'll want to look at another system. The actual LotR's game can support up to about 30 models a side from what I've heard. Heroscape, as mentioned earlier, is also a ton of fun. Sadly, it just recently went OOP(though the unit cards and rules can be found online at heroscapers.com, or you can design your own units).