| RelliK | 31 Jan 2011 8:07 a.m. PST |
What did they look like? Helmets? Armour? Chaps? Linothorax? Any links and ideas that would help me conclude and visualize are appreciated. Mike |
| JJartist | 31 Jan 2011 10:11 a.m. PST |
|
| RelliK | 31 Jan 2011 10:16 a.m. PST |
Theres something about scale chaps possibly or am I mistaken? The horse is on its way.. with the armour.
Mike
|
 BigRedBat  | 31 Jan 2011 10:22 a.m. PST |
Could scale chaps be a reference to the earlier Persian cavalry? Eumenes' Kappadocian bodyguard might also have had chaps. Simon |
aecurtis  | 31 Jan 2011 10:31 a.m. PST |
You mean parapleuridae? Not for the agema, as Jeff points out. Chaps are useful for riding, though: picture Allen |
| DeanMoto | 31 Jan 2011 10:34 a.m. PST |
What kind of body armor is the Seleucid guy (a.) wearing? Looks like it continues over his shoulders a bit. Dean |
| RelliK | 31 Jan 2011 10:35 a.m. PST |
Allen! Dean, check Relic Facebook for the horse. |
| JJartist | 31 Jan 2011 11:55 a.m. PST |
No armored chaps for Hellenistic cavalry.. that's Persian/Bactrian/Saka stuff. |
| JJartist | 31 Jan 2011 12:01 p.m. PST |
What kind of body armor is the Seleucid guy (a.) wearing? seems somewaht inventive and impractical.. methinks Angus might have added something here.
Maybe something more like the general here:
picture or here: picture seems more logical…. the item in the Montvert is based on a small statuette… it is plausible that the edging that comes out on that statuette is the same stuuf that Napoleonic cuirassiers used to keep from chaffing.. in that case I would say it is misrepresented as metal.
Jeff |
| GarrisonMiniatures | 31 Jan 2011 12:47 p.m. PST |
That last picture doesn't sir right – armoured horse, armoured arms, bare legs…. |
| JJartist | 31 Jan 2011 1:12 p.m. PST |
And yet the statuette that these reconstructions are based on has- bare legs and boots… the most likely reason is that gives the rider more control of his horse. |
| RelliK | 31 Jan 2011 1:14 p.m. PST |
|
| DeanMoto | 31 Jan 2011 1:18 p.m. PST |
Allen: I just clicked on your link – reminds me a bit of a centaur  |
| JJartist | 31 Jan 2011 1:21 p.m. PST |
The linothorax style armor in these reconstructions is based on this Pergamene art of trophies: picture |
| RelliK | 31 Jan 2011 1:29 p.m. PST |
JJ looks like a chariot wheel in the background! And this looks like a officers armour. see the strap around the waist thats tied? Mike |
| JJartist | 31 Jan 2011 1:50 p.m. PST |
|
| aecurtis | 31 Jan 2011 2:30 p.m. PST |
It's interesting that we infer so much about Seleucid armor and appearance from the Pergamene sources (particularly the Sanctuary of Athena), which we can only *assume* were sculpted from actual Seleucid trophies after the battle of Magnesia. Allen |
| Mithridates | 31 Jan 2011 3:29 p.m. PST |
Am I right in that we still have no evidence for the appearance of the Seleucid Agema? Looking at the old WRG 'bible' the comment was a Companion with trousers and lamellar armour for the horse. But basically your best guess?? |
| aecurtis | 31 Jan 2011 4:21 p.m. PST |
I'm not sure why Angus McBride thought that one would look like Ron Howard in "Happy Days". Amybe it was something Bar-Kokhva said; I don't have the energy to go check. Allen |
| JJartist | 31 Jan 2011 4:26 p.m. PST |
"Am I right in that we still have no evidence for the appearance of the Seleucid Agema?" It is all guess work. As Allen states the puzzle is pieced together by starting with the assumption that the victory depicted in the Pergamene reliefs is over the Seleucids. It is not an unreasonable assumption, but it is still an assumption. Seleucid cataphract gear is even more patchwork. All that can be said is that there are good guesses and bad guesses. I'd say good guesses: picture Although I prefer the open face helmets for these: picture Trousers and Seleucids was a bad guess. |
| DeanMoto | 31 Jan 2011 4:30 p.m. PST |
Yay! I got the good guess! 1st Corps guys, but I do like at least some with those face masks. So threatening *grin8 |
| Antiochos | 31 Jan 2011 5:08 p.m. PST |
Do you think agema would ride fully barded horses or only semi-barded horses, there isn't much on this, and it could be either way. Before the cataphract reforms, it was therorised that they agema already rode half barded horses, could they have adopted full barding afterwards, essentially making them more like kataphractoi? Or did they stay more similar to the hetairoi |
| JJartist | 31 Jan 2011 5:39 p.m. PST |
All that I think i know is that the cataphracts and hetairoi wore similar gear, only the hetairoi are described as lighter. The Agema- made up of Medes became cataphracts at some point. The extrapolations that hetairoi wore half barding is an assumption based on the 'lighter gear info' from the Daphne parade… some reliefs at Pergamum, some descriptions of troops on parade, some small statues…. guessing from Parthian gear….that's all there is. The horse head crests are from those same sources.. did all horses wear these crests, or just scythed chariots?
We don't know. Is it alright to use the artifacts 'we know about' to make educated guesses to create cool miniatures for this period. yes. Do we know if it is accurate- no. Has there been much new discovered recently to change anybody's view of these things? Not to my knowledge.. maybe if somebody could dredge the river near Magnesia… |
| JJartist | 31 Jan 2011 5:48 p.m. PST |
|
| Antiochos | 31 Jan 2011 6:19 p.m. PST |
thanks. We have to make do with what little we have on the Seleukids. |
| RelliK | 01 Feb 2011 9:51 a.m. PST |
maybe if somebody could dredge the river near Magnesia… I would rather put the money towards your successor book. Then we can work on the river Magnesia idea after… |
| Antiochos | 01 Feb 2011 2:00 p.m. PST |
a time machine would be better |
