"winning the Bronze Star" Topic

Okay I have a question and a story about a WWII Vet I know that won the Bronze Star.

I have known him for sometime and knew he was a WWII Vet, in the infantry and fought in Europe. Recently one of his buddies told me that he won the Bronze Star. I had not heard him mention it ever. Next time I spoke to him I asked him how he won it. He told me that he never knew he won it until he was discharged in late 1945 when he got his papers. He claims there was no notion why he had won it. I was kinda shocked and asked if he ever was curious and tried to find out why he won it. He told me he didn't really care about it.

My question… is it really possible to receive it and NOT know why? Do they award it to soldiers and not even tell them why? It seems very strange and I kinda think he just doesn't want to talk about it.

A citation would have accompanied the medal, however he was never awarded the medal by his commanding officer, so that means the citation is who knows where. Sounds like it was on his DD214 when he discharged, and that would simply state that he was awarded the medal, but not why. My guess is that his company commander or someone put him in for the medal, it went up the chain and was approved, however word never made it back to the soldier but did make it into his personnel file. So yes, it is possible for him to have been awarded a bronze start and have no idea why.

He should be able to petition Dept of the Army for a copy of his citation, which should be available in their records/archives.

Bronze Stars were not necessarily awarded for a single act. I've got my uncle's Bronze Star citation, which basically comes down to; he jumped at Normandy, he jumped in Holland, he served in the perimeter at Bastogne and he doesn't have a medal yet, so here it is….

My father-in-law got one in Korea. He won't discuss it, one time said some brass wandered by with too many medals in their pocket.

I suspect different.

A buddy of mine was awarded two Bronze Stars in Vietnam. He loves to talk about one of them, and has a rather funny story about how he ended up with a completely undeserved (his words) award for valor.

The second award, he won't talk about. I suspect that one was well earned.

My uncle received a Bronze Star and did not know he had it. Of course, he died stringing a telephone line across the open ground somewhere in the Pacific in March 1945 and probably never knew what hit him. He missed surviving the war by about a month.

Upon entry into the Army, I was told that during Vietnam Bronze Stars were handed out as a package to all soldiers at the end of their tour. An old vet told me that if you saw a Vietnam era vet with a Bronze Star with a "V" device it actually ment that they had performed a heroic act that was witnessed by someone.
WWII was a different war, most medals were earned the hard way. A friends father served in WWII in the Army Air Corps over Europe. While on post one day his father noticed a soldier that had a number device on the Air Medal. My friend had to explain to his father that the number ment how many times the soldier had recieved the medal. His father was almost dumbstruck when he was also told that during Vietnam, Air Medals were issued to soldiers for completing a set number of missions. He almost wanted to cry remembering all that he had witnessed over Europe in bombers that was just considered doing your duty.
I would suspect that your friend has an idea why he got the award but he really does not want to talk about it period. It is also possible that his records were destroyed or damaged by the fire that occured at the Army records storage facility many, many years ago. If you know the unit he was assigned to it may be possible to find historical records from the unit that may mention when the award was approved and/or submitted.

Not to be disrespectful, but I have always heard that soldiers do not like to describe it as "winning" an award so much as having earned it. You win the lottery, you earn a medal. Of course, not all soldiers feel that way, as you can see from the above anecdotes.

My grandfather earned his as an FO and artillery fire controller in the 95th ID over the course of several different actions on different days. He never talked about his either except to say "Bah, they handed those out like candy."

I also suspect differently :)

His father was almost dumbstruck when he was also told that during Vietnam, Air Medals were issued to soldiers for completing a set number of missions.

Air Medals have always been awarded for a set number of combat missions. The medal was created to recognize aircrew who frequently flew in hazardous/combat conditions. Dick Bong was awarded 14. Jimmy Stewart was awarded 4. The biggest difference between WW2 and Vietnam was in the number of missions an aircrewman could accumulate during a tour of duty. Thud and Phantom pilots bombing North Vietnam were expected to fly 100 combat missions before rotation home. Aircrew flying "in country" combat missions in the South, and naval aviators flying off carriers, flew combat missions until their tour of duty expired, regardless of number flown. Basically, the missions added up a lot faster in Vietnam.

Same thing happened to my dad in WWII.
We have the citation for his Silver Star from Normandy Campaign – but he didn't know he had a Bronze Star until he sent for his records after the 50th anniv of D-Day.

I heard somewhere they gave it to a lot of ETO combat vets to help with their "points" so they didn't have to go to Pacific after VE day (before the bomb)
Kind of like Tachikoma said.

The award may be made to each member of the Armed Forces of the United States who, after 6 December 1941, was cited in orders or awarded a certificate for exemplary conduct in ground combat against an armed enemy after 7 December 1941. For this purpose, an award of the Combat Infantryman Badge or Combat Medical Badge is considered as a citation in orders. Documents executed since 4 August 1944 in connection with recommendations for the award of decorations of higher degree than the Bronze Star Medal cannot be used as the basis for an award under this paragraph.

My father in law recieved the Bronze Star based on the CIB. He landed on Omaha beach on D+1 and served in an infantry unit in Europe until the end of the war. All infantrymen would have been eligible if they saw combat in WWII and were thus eligible for the CIB. My Uncle recieved one as a Navy Corpsman based on a Combat Medic Badge. He landed on Omaha Beach on D-Day in the second wave of landing craft as part of a Navy medical team which triaged casualties and tried to move those who did not have fatal wounds back to the ships.

I met a young man who was awarded a Bronze Star in Iraq. He said, "This is a transportation unit; I'm a truck driver. We were driving through a town and there was a firefight and I saw a guy go down. I stopped the truck and went and got him and took him down the road to a medical unit. So they give me this. I just did what anybody else would do."

I told him 2 things about such things. (1) Heroic legend is built around those who go toward danger when others go away from it. (2) He got noticed – he's wearing it for all the other guys who didn't get noticed.

The second worked better for him.

My uncle landed at D Day and was awarded three bronze stars over the course of the remainder of the war. He never talked about any of the war, medals or not and unfortunately passed away several years ago.

db

One of my old bosses was a surgical resident in the early days of the Vietnam War – he showed up at Walter Reid for what he thought was a one year research project, and 48 hours later was getting out of a transport in Vietnam – he spent the next twelve months in a field hospital supporting the First Air Cav as well as conducting surgery on children from the nearby villages – when he rotated home he was given a Bronze Star – as noted above, he was very modest about it – from what I have heard from others in his unit, probably too modest

According to my dad(who had one in the Pacific)they passed them out like peanuts. Yet he never said what his was for.

They didn't pass them out like peanuts and not everyone in Vietnam received one. You could be awarded one for something other than valor. I got mine for leadership. I was an infantry squad leader, I also received the CIB and the Silver Star.

Well I can only speak from a personal perspective on this.

I was put up for all kinds of awards and about half way through my career I told my COs that I regarded the whole business as a waste of time. I was a medical officer and I had better things to do than attend boards and ceremonies. (Besides they needed to look at the enlisted folks that worked with me. They were the ones that were making me look good). I barely had enough time to attend to my regular duties and when I was gone, it idled a lot of other folks that supported my activities.

I didn't need medals to motivate me and I had enough to 'impress' those who were impressed with them. That and I never wore them anyway. (I loved that Khaki uniform -- no ribbons! -- when I couldn't wear that I would often wear a white lab coat)

Anyway, that little speech ended my days of awards and medals. Or so I thought. When I exited the service, my DD-214 contained a long list of awards of which I had no knowledge -- like about 8 or 10 of em.

When I got in a rut, I would often 'volunteer' to support a 'special mission'. I viewed these assignments as a chance to see Central America, Africa, Minnesota (that is a pretty good story in itself), etc. (although I did pass on the Sinai which did not make them happy). These junkets were kinda fun actually -- a lot less work than what I was doing and they seldom involved more than a week. Well, this kind of thing was almost certain to get you an award of some kind. Someone would get hurt, I would stabilize them, and then they would be flown out. From my perspective, no big deal. That's what they paid me to do wasn't it? That's why I was there. I could perform this same kind of activity 100 times in my assigned unit and no one would notice. I do it once for a unit where I am attached for 'special purposes' and I get a medal. Go figure.

Bottom line -- they can give you awards and not tell you about them. AND unless you review your personnel records you may never know about it.

Iron Ivan Keith "Not to be disrespectful, but I have always heard that soldiers do not like to describe it as "winning" an award so much as having earned it."

Ya gotta take it a step further, actually… the proper terminology would be they do not, "win," OR, "earn," it, medals are, "awarded."

Some medals can be won.

Some medals can be earned.

Medals are always awarded.

mjc

It's quite possible to be awarded a medal without knowing it. I had a neighbor, a disabled Vietnam Vet, who didn't know he'd been awarded a Silver Star until the mid-90's. I was in the Army at the time as a company commander and helping him with digging up his military records. He was severely wounded, evactuated and medically retired. His commander submitted the award, the division commander approved it, paperwork filed, but the medal never caught up with him.

As Far as I know there was NO package of medals given to all of us Viet Nam Vets that included a Bronze Star . As stated you could get one for other reasons than a combat award.

Omemin,

Any burecratic organization is going to be somewhat subjective when awarding medals. However I have learned 2 things in 24 years, "V" devices are not very subjective and the less the person brags about the incident the more they did. I suspect your truck driver ran through heavy fire to pull that guy to safety.

Joe

My friend's uncle died in the Vietnam War. His family received an American flag and a bronze star, but nothing to indicate what he had done to be awarded the medal. My friend inherited both the flag and the medal. a few years ago. He plans to visit the Vietnam War memorial in Washington DC and leave them there, under his uncles engraved name.

E.H.

My Dad was awarded a Bronze Star, but we never knew about
it until after he'd died. Mom found that medal and the
citation in Dad's 'things' box (he kept it on a top
shelf of his closet in the bedroom). It and the Purple
Heart were still in the boxes in which they'd originally
been presented.

My Uncle Elmer (Dad's junior by two years) was awarded
a Silver Star, never knew about it or received it until
the early 90's. An officer and an escort came down to
his home from Fort Dix to make the presentation (he lived
in NJ).

Any truth in the story I was told as a young (and gullible) squaddie a long, long time ago, that a USAF transport plane was diverted over Northern Ireland during the 70's/80's, and the crew got a medal 'for flying over a war zone'?
As the years have gone past, I've become more and more doubtful!

The most probably answer is shown above. After the war Congress decided to give everyone with a CIB a bronze star. This has left many many famioles (and veterans) confused as to what it was for.

Normally all such awards were issued in a geneoral order and the troops were given copies of these oprders. (normally a 2 or 3 sentance wriote up for a BS). But lots of guys have lost thier copies, and lots of records were destroyed ina fire in 1973. The Orders are stil in the unit files however, but there are units/times where they just seem to have vanished.

Only if the Bronze Star has a "V" device on it was it for valor in combat. Awards for inventing a new kind of widget, or for doing a good job durring a period of time do not have the V device. If someone was an infantryman though, the vast majority of these awards are for the Congressional give-away. Most combat vets of WW2 felt that the CIB was enough of a reward for what they did, but politicians always know best.

If you want more help on tracking a WW2 Army veterans service go see my book "Finding Your Father's War"

I know my Father, was awarded a Silver Star, Bronze Star, Purple Heart and CIB. He was a SGT with the 90th ID, in the ETO. I read the citation for the Silver Star and it was for a recon crossing of the Mosselle River. And the Purple Heart for shelling from mortars or FA during the Lorraine Campaigne. Leaving him deaf in one ear and lose of mobility in one wrist, for the rest on his life. I believe the Bronze Star was given for overall service and the CIB. Like Allen57 mentioned … He passed long ago, and I can't ask him for more details … wish I could …

Medals are *always* "awarded," just like non-judicial punishment…

Let's see here: I have a Navy Achievement medal (for keeping up with a crapton of paperwork) as an end of tour award, an Admiral's letter or two, a "did not get caught" (Err, Good Conduct) medal, and the two CNN medals (National Defense Service Medal and the Global War on Terror Service Medal). Then there's my dolphins and my Strategic Deterrent Patrol pin. Oh, and a Navy E ribbon, but that's a unit award as opposed to a personal award.

While I would argue I earned the NAM and the letters, those were awarded as attaboys (well, one of the letters may have been a downgrade from a NAM, I covered my E8 while he went home on emergency leave and still had all the paperwork done for the inspections… all by my self. That's normally a 3-man job). NDSM I wore because it was my lowest on the top 3 and I worked in a HQ where I couldn't get away with only wearing 2 ribbons on a daily basis. I could, and did, refuse to wear the GWOT, but it's there in my DD214. I think a lot of the staff never bothered to wear their GWOTs, either.

I wore my dolphins with pride. Those are awarded as a sign that the rest of the crew trusts you to watch their back.

It's certainly *possible* to be awarded a medal and never see the citation (for that matter, it's possible to get a medal that you can't wear!), just because the paperwork never caught up with you after you transferred. I had to forward a lot of awards. Generally, though, we tried to make sure the award got approved before the transfer happened. There is even a block on the current award application form that asks if this is a hurry-up award. I used to write the things for a living, after all.

@GreyONE: Your friend can write a letter to the US Army to get a copy of the citation, if he's interested. Ignore the last sentence in the award citation, that's boilerplate with only two variations. The first sentence is also boilerplate, but it has important details like when and where. Everything in between those two sentences is the important, "what happened" part.

There are two types of awards – for merit, and for valor. The "V" device indicates those for valor, or bravery under fire. "Merit" includes all the other stuff – the end-of-war lotteries, administrative awards, long devotion to service, etc.

A more official description is:

Criteria: a. The Bronze Star Medal is awarded to any person who, while serving in any capacity in or with the military of the United States after 6 December 1941, distinguished himself or herself by heroic or meritorious achievement or service, not involving participation in aerial flight, while engaged in an action against an enemy of the United States; while engaged in military operations involving conflict with an opposing foreign force; or while serving with friendly foreign forces engaged in an armed conflict against an opposing armed force in which the United States is not a belligerent party.

b. Awards may be made for acts of heroism, performed under circumstances described above, which are of lesser degree than required for the award of the Silver Star.

c. Awards may be made to recognize single acts of merit or meritorious service. The required achievement or service while of lesser degree than that required for the award of the Legion of Merit must nevertheless have been meritorious and accomplished with distinction.

Background: a. General George C. Marshall, in a memorandum to President Roosevelt dated February 3, 1944, wrote: "The fact that the ground troops, Infantry in particular, lead miserable lives of extreme discomfort and are the ones who must close in personal combat with the enemy, makes the maintenance of their morale of great importance. The award of the Air Medal have had an adverse reaction on the ground troops, particularly the Infantry Riflemen who are now suffering the heaviest losses, air or ground, in the Army, and enduring the greatest hardships." The Air Medal had been adopted two years earlier to raise airmen's morale.

b. President Roosevelt authorized the Bronze Star Medal by Executive Order 9419 dated 4 February 1944, retroactive to 7 December 1941. This authorization was announced in War Department Bulletin No. 3, dated 10 February 1944. The Executive Order was amended by President Kennedy, per Executive Order 11046 dated 24 August 1962, to expand the authorization to include those serving with friendly forces.

c. As a result of a study conducted in 1947, the policy was implemented that authorized the retroactive award of the Bronze Star Medal to soldiers who had received the Combat Infantryman Badge or the Combat Medical Badge during World War II. The basis for doing this was that the badges were awarded only to soldiers who had borne the hardships which resulted in General Marshall's support of the Bronze Star Medal. Both badges required a recommendation by the commander and a citation in orders.

d. Order of precedence and wear of decorations is contained in Army Regulation 670-1. Policy for awards, approving authority, supply, and issue of decorations is contained in AR 600-8-22.

Information Courtesy of Department of Defense

I was "awarded" an MSM, 1 ARCOM & 2 AARs … all for merit … not valor … I don't think ARCOMs or AARs can be awarded for "valor" ?! Or even MSMs !?

Legion, thanks for your service. As essential as the fellows in the front line are, and as much respect as we pay for them, if the military didn't value the other fellows – who make up 75% or so of the armed forces – the "merit" awards wouldn't exist. I agree with the notion that combat service and those that participate in it deserve every bit of honour paid to them. I don't agree that the efforts of others should be swept under the rug and labelled unimportant by comparison. I've talked to too many veterans who were embarrassed to come out on Remembrance Day because "all they did" was drive a truck or wash laundry or fix radios. But on talking to them, you find out that they wore the same uniform and many had volunteered for more hazardous duty, but were denied because there was no need for them at the time. They went where they were told and did what they were asked. Seems to me that's what soldiers do.

Well thank you Michael … And I agree, support units are very essential. I was an Infantry Officer from '79-'90 was in Panama, the ROK and (West)Germany among other places worldwide, and in 4 Infantry Bns(1 Air Assault, 3 Mech). Was on the "front lines" so to speak, at times, but got "lucky" and never did anything to earn a "V" …

In today's Army… Be a E-6(P) or higher. Usually an E-7 + and kiss butt. Watched several given out in '06 in Iraq. It's amazing how much they all had in common. And suprise, suprise, their Soldier's were 'awarded' few if any awards…

There can be a lot of confusion with terminology on the Service Records.

For example, my Aunt is convinced that my Grandfather has the Silver Star because his records say that he has the Combat Infantry badge with Silver Star. The "with Silver Star" part is because he has a 2nd award CIB for service in both WWII and Korea. The "with Silver Star" denotes an additional "device" to the CIB award, not a spate award.

Likewise campaign medals, can have "Bronze Stars" devices to denote multiple operations in the same campaign. For example I have the Southwest Asia Campaign Medal with three bronze stars; one for Desert Shield, one for Desert Storm, and one for Desert whatever the clean up phase was called. Those "Bronze Stars" are just little additions that pin on the campaign medal, not spate awards for Merit or Valor.

Possibly the OP's WWII Vet friend has a Campaign Medal "with Bronze Star" device to denote that he served in multiple operations in the same campaign.

"I don't think ARCOMs or AARs can be awarded for "valor" ?! Or even MSMs !?"

Legion,

You can get earn an ARCOM with "V" devices. Not an AAM though (I assume that's what you meant by "AAR").

You cannot earn a MSM for valor as that would be put in as a Bronze Star with "V" instead. Essentially a Bronze Star Medal without "V" is just the same as a MSM, except that it's earned in a combat zone. Nobody gets put in for MSM in theater at all, because of that.

My last Bronze Star (Afghanistan 2006-2007) was not for valor and I really did not care about it as I already had one for merit. I was assigned to a Joint command and I was really hoping for the lower rated JCOM (Joint Commendation) which I did not have but instead just picked up the "oak leaf cluster" for the Bronze Star I already had.

For what it's worth, a Bronze Star without "V", including my two really is not that big of deal. Bronze Star with "V", that I will never earn now that I am retired, is the "been there, done that, under fire" award that might actually matter for something.

Yes, I meant an AAM … been a long time since I even thought about those … Thank you …

My Uncle was awarded a Silver Star in Korea. I never knew until a few years ago when my cousin told me. When I asked him about it he said "My buddies got shot to Hell and they gave me a Medal". He told me not to ask him about it again.

Thanks for all the comments.

I'm puzzled now even more. This Vet joined a Police department after the War. He can remember EVERY detail of his service, remember all his fellow officers in his 30 year career, rose through the ranks to a Chief and he can't remember anything about the Bronze Star and his military career? He must want to forget at least his service and what he went through.

It's often not so much a case of forgetting as simply not wishing to discuss it with people who clearly have no way, to their mind, of being able to relate to the experience they went through. He might be able to talk about it with other veterans or with someone who showed a deep historical knowledge/interest. Or someone currently serving who had demonstrated they had been in similar circumstances as he had faced. But mostly, they feel that what they went through was so unique that others would be unable to appreciate and relate to what they went through, and so they clam up. We've had 50 years of realistic police procedurals on television, but there haven't been many films that have honestly portrayed the day to day life of soldiers; mostly because it would be boring to watch.

Very true Michael. Unless you have been "there", it is hard for those to really truely understand or relate. And as far as movies, I thought "Jarhead", about the USMC during GW1 was fairly "realistic". A lot of a soldier's life can be repeditive and boring … and sometimes just plain silly. Not the heroic "John Wayne" sort of thing the media has many times portrayed … Of course sometimes boring is good … as usually someone is not trying to kill you …