"Austrian Elite Units 1809 Campaign?" Topic

Shane,

I honestly reckon that it is stretching a case of misidentification pretty far to get to it must have been a misidentification because of fear – especially when the troops in question won. I reckon it is stretching it even further to have a rule which presumably would give both the Austrian Grenadiers and the Neapolitan Guard Grenadiers a 'fear factor' but would exclude the Russian, British or Prussian Guards for wearing insufficiently scary hats. One feels for the British Guards and Fusiliers who thoughtlessly forgot to pack their bearskins for their voyages to Spain and the Low Countries!

With the Old Guard 'fear' bonus, not only I'm a fairly sceptical about the notion, but I reckon if it exists at all, that it is applied at the wrong level. In your rules system (as described) the 'fear' is felt at the individual unit level – whereas this fear seems more correctly applied at the command level. And since most wargamers have a healthy fear of an opponent with a large reserve of Veteran/Elite troops, it seems overkill to give it a modifier in the system as well (unless perhaps your system models the morale of individual senior generals). But like I said, I'm sceptical of the whole thing: the idea boils down to everyone was a bit more scared of the Old Guard across every military in Europe than the Old Guard was of anyone else – including troops that had never encountered them. This would naturally include the Brits, who had a pretty much unbroken record of success against the French for 8 years before ever encountering them, but had defeated such units of the Guard as they had encountered! Impossible to prove, but fairly unlikely to my mind.

But clearly, we will have to agree to differ on this!

Regards

That is my point, fearing Napoleon's presence enables the OG to cause fear…on top of their perceived fighting prowess

I think I have missed your point – sorry. The Allies fear of Napoleon doesn't seem to have depended on the presence of his Guard – they feared him whether they were there or not?

Regards

Im still not convinced it would be clear they were the guard in most engagements, battlefields are quite big places, everyone knows bogstandard grenadiers can have bearskins, add to that lots of continental troops fight in greatcoats anyway, the only real identity givers would be cap badges an unit insignia, and if they are that close to be recognised your probably going to be a bit too busy to be checking out exactly who they are.

If your officers can pick them out through the cannon smoke then I guess if they mouth off to the men that the guard is coming at them, then the officers would im guessing be extremely confident in the steadiness and fighting spirit of their men. Or daft. But I think most officers if they thought their men would panic at the thought of the Imperial Guard coming at them they just wouldnt mention it.

If the troops are really nervous im not sure it would matter who was coming at them, as long as they came on boldly theyd broably still panic.

I do agree that IG shold be alot steadier than regular French units, and definately able to withstand a lot of punishment. Not sure I hold with them causing fear/morale to drop by virtue of their name.

Didnt French soldiers beleive Russians to be inhuman for their ability to withstand horrific wounds with out screaming (not sure where I read it but I read it somewere).. on that virtue should all non guard French units be penalised for attacking or being attacked by any Russian regular unit?

Not sure where im going with that but I feel like its relevent..

I mentioned this before in an older posting, but perhaps it wasn't always necessary to see the whites of the eyes to believe that you were facing the elite of the enemy.
At Waterloo, just before the Middle Guard were launched against the Allied positions between Hougoumont and La Haie Sainte, a deserter [an officer of French heavy cavalry] rode up to the position occupied by the British Guards, and along with shouting 'Vive le Roi' also let everyone know that the ogre and his Imperial Guard were on their way to that exact spot, and would be there shortly.
I posited in that posting that perhaps this was a deliberate action sanctioned by the French high command to put fear into the target – I always thought it a little coincidental that the deserter should select the exact point of attack for his display.

npm

That's just daft enough to be possible!