"Warlord Games - Operation Squadron, any reviews" Topic

Looking at these on the Warlord Games site, a new system called Operation Squadron

"This full-colour book provides everything you need to fight skirmish level actions during World War II. It's also chock full of photographs of Bolt Action miniatures too"

I'm guessing its to go along with their new ranges of 28mm WW2 plastics. Has anyone read it, played it?

A small number of models and quick playing time may tempt me into another period…

I did. Smooth mechanics and fast play, have to admit I love the game. One squad per side, ie 10-15 models. Contains lists for every major power, more lists available on the author's website. Infantry only, so not suitable for tank enthusiasts

Thanks for that – may get the rulebook and then models later after I've had a chance to read it.

Where is the author's website?

Found them after going through Warlord Games forums

link

(this seems to be the English part of the board, rest is in Italian)

thought it's Operation Squad?

any word if they'll add vehicles later?

No pacific?

It looks like only Europe at this stage.

18GBP for only 46 pages of rules… of which I am guessing half may be army lists.

I am interested, but want more information before investing in it.

link

it seems to be something to do with the alzozero stable …

The Italian download page has several files, which seem to contain the basic rules plus army lists, while the English download only has army lists (109 pages!) so hopefully, the basic rules will also be made available on the English site as well.
link

the download aren't for Operation Squad, the new skirmish rules but for Operation WWII. for OS you can download additional list.
The author is testing rules for vehicles, for a future expansion.
We've tried Operation Squad, and found it very interesting.
the game is fast and smooth, the rules clear and complete, one of the best skirmish system.
In the book you find all you need to play: rules, summary sheet, counters, army lists and mission, so i think your money are well spent.
You must know that the game uses a good number of counter to run so if you like to have a clean table this can be a problem.

Is there a PDF of this available? Like shelldrake, I'm interested, but need more info … even a basic overview of the rules would do.

no PDF, only printed book which is in full colour with good photo of BAM models.
The game plays very fast with alternate activation of the single soldiers. The activation must be very clear, saying what the model will do, where it will move or the target of shooting. the other player can react activating any other model and so on for max three model for side. then there is a roll to state the order of activation of the models, giving a little bonus to the active player. this needs a lot of tactical decision, is better to react to the moving soldier or wait for a better moment?. It is more simple to play than to explain.
The mission are very clever and push you to move and not to stand still in cover waiting for an easy target.
The shooting uses between 3 to 5 opposed D6, so the luck factor is a bit lowered.
the list are simple and easy to use, but with enough variation to give different feeling between different nation. you can add sniper, HMG and light mortar to the normal troopers.

alep63, thanks. Are distances measured (most systems vs. CrossFire) for movement and range? How does morale and rallying work? What states can a soldier be in (pinned etc)? Is there a difference between suppressed and pinned states? Thanks.

I liked the simplicity of their original rules… "Take out his spleen for £500…"

The buzzing when his nose lit up was annoying, though.

for DaveyJJ
distance are measured and range always cover almost the table, (rifles shoot up to 80cm). if you move in difficult ground you have a random penalty (which you know only after having stated your order) in one of our games a soldier tried to run out of a wood to reach a nearby house losing movement in the wood and stopping in the open ground under enemy fire.
the result from fire can put you to the ground, forcing to loose some action and the morale is only tested after losing a certain number of figures stated in the army list.
One good thing of this system is that with few pages and few rules are covered almost all of the game situation, and you can play clearly without interpretation problems or unsolved question. think at a kind of DBA system without the Phil Barker language complexity.
we will play again this week with other armies and other missions i will let you know (i will field my Italian Folgore).

I'm one of the authors of OPERATION SQUAD.
If you have any question about the game you can send a message at

operationsquad@libero.it

for info, faq, new lists

operationsquad.forumfree.it (soon in english too)

Hi
Valentino

Sounds interesting. NUTS! scale but without the reaction system. Hmm.

@ DaveyJJ

Reaction system – well yes and no, in the sense that it has a reaction system all of its own that works really well, creating chains of events and a VERY fluid game that give rise to some intriguing situations and command dilemmas.

@ Everyone..

Vehicles are coming soon (being playtested), as are new army lists such as the Pacific, other Russians/Germans/New Zealanders etc… a bit of everything for all tastes.

The original game is in Italian (as someone said, it's not Operation World War Two which was Platoon level – this is definitely Squad level and a different game). The "stable" is the same though.

I'm the translator and any mistakes on the site or in the rules in English are my fault (well, mostly). I'm involved because I love the game, I'm not involved financially, just to guarantee transparency!.

So any questions to this thread or to maverickv (above) and we'll try to answer as best we can.

Good gaming

A

Got the rules the other day. While 18 quid is d
will remain the debating point for most the actual rules seem different enough to give a good argument for getting them. I suspect also that they will be SO easy to play with only the QRS and squad sheet that many players will not bother getting them so it is a case of getting the dosh while they can. For me I see it as paying for the ideas and they are good ideas and mechanics which really are pretty original on the whole (which is fairly unusual now).

I will give them a run out at the club ad people who don't love either my flying lead or my favourite NUTS may find them just the ticket. I really like how covet and terrain movement works

MMmm love the typos on my post above (I blame my phone!)

Started a Yahoo Group for the rules as I think they will catch on quick and a lot of people have trouble getting onto forums from work as where group emails work ok – completely non official of course.

link

Working on a review at the moment …
Rich

@Surfer… yahoo link doesn't work??

Andy – seems to be OK
Rich J

Works for me too

Hmmm! Fun set of rules Surferdude, but the mechanics are hardly original. The game uses a quick scratch built variant of another sets initiative system I play as well, called Koenig Krieg, which predates this sets initiative mechanic by many, many years… In fact the whole of the OPSWW2 game seems to be tied around the initiative mechanic, without that the rules would not be as interesting. I wonder what the guys at Koenig Krieg think of that? In fact when I first read OPSWW2 I almost fell over laughing,

This is what OPSWW2 says about Initiative

"The player who wins initiative may decide if he/she wants to give the first order to one of his or her models or force their opponent to play first. In order to decide initiative, both players roll 2D6 and add the highest VT of the active models on the table. Compare totals – the player with the highest wins…. The player that won initiative decides whether to start first or make his opponent start…. "

Although taken from the latest edition of Koenig Krieg, I also have the 1985 and 1996 versions as well and they are pretty much the same wording as the current Koenig Krieg Version. This is what the Koenig Krieg rules say about initiative, remembering that Koenig Krieg predates OPSWW2 by 15+years…

"Players test to see which side has the initiative and the player with initiative decides to activate a formation or force his opponent to activate a formation during this round….. Army generals roll 1D6 and add the leadership class of the army general to the dice. The army general with the highest modified dice roll wins the initiative test….Initiative tests are repeated until all formations on both sides have had the chance to act.
A formation may only act once per phase.
Once a player has acted with a formation, the formation may not perform any other operations during that phase….Initiative is performed multiple times, round after round during the charge and reaction sub-phase. Just like in the march & volley phase a player who wins an initiative test may act with one of his own formations or force his opponent to act with one of their formations instead."

Well well well, small world. Perhaps even a smidgeon of trying to disguise the obvious similarities might have been a smart move by the authors of this WW2 skirmish game. They may find themselves in hot water over this one… :) Lol!

Correct Gregoryk, you cannot copyright an idea but once placed on paper that idea is no longer an ethereal thing and can be copyrighted…A copyright exists immediately upon the original creation and fixation thereof, which is the legal way to say it exists upon creation (i.e. writing it down.

The words can be copyrighted. The idea cannot.
The initiative system from Koenig Krieg is similar to one from Jack Scruby's old 'Continuous Combat' system which dates from about 1961.
There are very few original game mechanisms in any set.
So be careful before you start casting stones.

Now I am not a great studier of Jack Scruby's rules and generally a very slow and dim witted sort of fellow, but where in Jack Scruby's rules is the initiative system used at all???? His continous combat system was a simultaneous system, everyone moves, then shoots and then does melee. Scruby's rules are as distant fromKoenig Krieg in concept and application as any wargames I have ever known…. But maybe not being a Scruby expert I have just not come across his initiative system mechanic in his rules I currently have in my library…..

well it is pretty common that initiative in any wargame is got with a roll plus possible leadership modifier.
In a igougo game is usually made once per game, in more dynamic games it is rolled at the start of every turn.

Anyway initiative in OS is another stuff and I would recommend to give a read and understand the system before claiming the copyright for the use of a d6 or markers for pinned/disorder or measures in cm/inches or the "invention" of army lists…

Dear sir the initiative based on rolling dice is very well none untill 60'…
Someone use different kind of dice someone the same but is the same all over the world from long time ago (before Konig)
Also Warzone use the initiative. The list could be very very long.
More than that the game mechanic of OS is based on Operation World War Two also know as Operation Overlord or Alzo Zero that use the card instead dice. For obvious reason the games move in more simple mechanic and share the card with d6… The original game was based on platoon this is only A squad.
Apart from that the full mechanic is based on d6 and you add d6 or cut D6 in relation with your action/move… we don't have table with modifier… Sorry but we are really distant from this game that, before now we don't know.
Our game is a skirmish instead Konig Krieg, from the small information that we have now, is based on brigade… really very distant. We have more or less dice and you should score 11 or more… (is the key number in all the game)
… again really very different.
We have wounded, pinned an Kia model… Brigade?
I will please these guy to realize also that we wrote the rules in Italian and they was translated later by an english guy (Andrew Carless). It is impossible that we use the same sentence… Obviously, in the game of all the word if the author talk about terrain, for example, you will found in the text more or less the same thing: "if you cross a rough terrain your unit will reduce the movement…" and the same will be about initiative.
The REAL core mechanic of OS is the possible reaction not initiative. You declare you action, your enemy can react and you can react again and so on until three models pro side. Later you roll the dice and you compare the results; the highest go first… that means that everything can happen. This is the REAL core mechanic and is the same in OWWII.
We are really relaxed on that field and we please everybody to read carefully our games and make their own consideration.

Combat patrol wrote:
His continous combat system was a simultaneous system, everyone moves, then shoots and then does melee.
-----------------
No – *one side* keeps moving and shooting and doing melee with a unit until it loses; that's why it's called Continuous Combat.

So we are different…very different
I don't see any point equal.
Regarding initiative please take note that also DBM roll a dice and add the leadership. Who have the highest value go first…
I think hundred games have this rules…

I translated the rules from Italian to English and apart from a few "glitches" (which a guy called RichJ was very helpful in sorting out) I can guarantee that the words were in no way a copy of any others.. all my own and take blame for them as RichJ knows! To be honest, and maybe unfortunately, the KK rules you mention are not in my extensive games collection.. I would be very interested to see them and I will look for them on ebay.

The mechanism that you mention has been used in its various forms in many games.. in DBA they use dice + "aggression factor", DBM the same.. and they are OLD games too. There's only one or two ways to decide initiative anyway… toss a coin, roll a dice, modify a dice roll or let the youngest player go first (Monopoly in my house)…

So as for "hot water" I doubt it very much.. the very fact that the KK are quoted by you as saying "initiative tests are repeated until all formations on both sides have had the chance to act" is so totally different anyway as is Squad there's only one test per turn… and in any case the wargames world is so small and insignificant (unless you're called GW) that apart from the fact that I don't imagine these sorts of things are copyright-able, even if they were I'm sure the author of KK wouldn't be worried at all even if the concept was copied, which of course it wasn't as I know for a fact that neither I nor the authors had ever headr of KK before this thread.

Shall we start complaining about games that use a d6 to roll to hit? Or that move "x" number of inches/mm/bounds/Movement Units/? Or that have the same concept of Panic/Morale/Routing/Stability/Panic/Fresh/Worn/Pinned/Green/ etc etc to all basically reflect the same concept of troops on the table getting the hell out fo there as soon as they can?

Any wargame only covers a few basic concepts really… who fires first, how well he does it, how far he moves, does he kill the enemy and does the eemy get to fire back or move?? It is inevitable that ANY author will find very similar concepts in other people's games.. look at any rules set to find the same chapters on Initiative/Firing/Close Combat/Moving/Morale/Victory Conditions… they may be called differently in different rules but they'll all have the same goal.

What is different about this game are the thousand other things that make it a unique and innovative skirmish game that everyone that has tried it has enjoyed…

Just my tuppence worth..

There is only a certain number of ways of doing initiative – the OPS one is more like the original NUTS than anything else – BUT the way everything works together is very very good.

Back to original question our club was provided the rules to try out and we have found them quite fun.