"Heraldry On Medieval Flags and Banners?" Topic

If the charge/emblem on a medieval flag or banner was an animal (lion or boar for example) and it was facing toward the pole one side, would it face toward the pole on the other or was that a function of the owner's choice or whether it was painted or attached with needle and thread. All of the examples I find are of what I believe is called the obverse side of the banner where the emblem/animal is facing toward the pole which doesn't help in answering my question. Hope you can clear this up for me. Thanks

99,9 % of the time the animal would be facing the pole. On both sides of the banner.

However some nobles had their charges facing away from the pole. But that are rare exceptions. But the animals would always face in the same direction on both sides of the banner.

You can see the Polish noble Conrad the White's banner (an exception)
picture

And the normal types are in abundance here

link

The direction a heraldic critter faces is often symboiically important. Not ALL face the poll, or dexter. Some face sinister.

In the heat of a battle, if the purpose of a flag or standard is to serve as a rallying point, I do not hink that poor Piers is going to be puzzled by the lion gardant fracing in the wrong direction. He will see the yellow and red squares.

This is great! Thank you both very much. Richard

Banners were heavy and sewn two-sided: i.e. they did not "bleed" through to the other side, such that correct device "facing" showed through from the other side. So I don't believe that Rune is correct with this: as OFM says, positioning of the heraldic devices was important. For instance: if a dexter bend is part of the heraldry, it has to be dexter to the viewer; you can't have them line up back to front or one side ends up displaying sinister. The facing of the animal devices is always "dexter/sinister" as well….

Someone take me a step further in this. If dexter and sinister are not at issue on the flag or banner (no bar right to left or left to right diagonally), is Rune's position that the animal would face the pole on both sides correct? That seems to be what the link he provided indicates. If that is the case, it would be very helpful if Doom or OFM or Rune or anyone else would tell me, are there any other traps like the dexter and sinister I might fall into. Thank you. Richard

War In 15mm

The coat of arms of a noble/city would be display correctly on the obverse side of the banner and then reversed on the other side. The animal would look in the same direction on both sides.

Here is a link for the Teutonic banners captured by the Polish at Tannenberg/Grunwald 1410. Lots of examples.

link

The reverse side of Conrad the White's banner
picture

The reverse side of the banner of Königsberg according to the Banderia Prutenorum from 1448
picture

Most likely based on the arms of the King of Bohemia
So the obverse side of the flag would look like this.
link

And the final flag like this: link

Rune 3, thank you for taking the time to help me out with this. It is much appreciated. Richard

So when the quartered leopards and fleur-de-lis of England during the HYW are seen on the reverse side, the quartering switches to match the obverse side? And the leopards change facing as well? link

I've learned a lot. Thanks all. Richard

I agree that in most historical exemples the designs are reversed on the other side. This is true also for quarterings.

It is also true for these devices on a horse coat. The idea is that the lion or leopards, or whatever, should not be turning their back to the enemy.

I noticed that modern US troops have a reversed US flag (= with the blue quarter on the right side) stitched on their right shoulder, I suppose it is the same meaning : the flag should not appear to be going the other way ?

"So when the quartered leopards and fleur-de-lis of England during the HYW are seen on the reverse side, the quartering switches to match the obverse side? And the leopards change facing as well?"

Usually, yes.
See the collection of Great Seals here link
Note – Henry IV's is opposite to the others. I wonder if the seal was made in haste on his usurption and found to be in error (or even overlooked!). Making a new seal was apparently no mean thing.
Occasionally you'll come across other seals which also have the 'wrong' facing – again it is difficult to know if this is an error or perhaps down to wanting to show the arms the way they'd be on the shield even though it means being wrong on the trapping.