"What keeps you from starting Napoleonics?" Topic

Aside from those that have no interest in the period whatsoever, what keeps you from getting started? Price? Too complicated a period? Too many rules? Too complicated rules? Too tough tactics? Too hard to paint uniforms? Waiting on more 28mm plastic sets to come out? Just cant be bothered to research the period and the armies? A combination of the above? Other?

Price.

The TMP Napoleonics boards.

Possibility of being scoffed at for the wrong button lace color.

If I'm to do linear tactics, I'd rather do 18th C wars, especially 7 Years War or American War of Independence.

Although every time I see "Love and Death" I get a hankering to paint green.

Cost and the work required to research and paint the figures.

I started with modest intentions – skirmish with a couple of boxes of plastic 28mm. Still pretty modest endeavor, with no regrets.

for me: I always thought it was a dumb way to fight a war standing out in the open all lined up and blasting away at each other. just as dumb as most of the tactics used in WWI and ACW

The amount of finnicky painting is daunting. Another thing is finding the perfect scale and rules system. Then there is having to choose between early and later Napoleonic uniforms. And my regular opponents have LOADS of Napoleonic figures already, which I am more than welcome to use (especially as I painted some of them).
I've started more Napoleonics projects than any other wargaming period, in 6mm, 10mm, 15mm, 20mm (1/72) and 28mm. I have not successfully finished any of them before becoming disillusioned and selling the figures.
I am now sufficiently wary about dipping my toe in again, but it is bound to happen sooner or later.

I'm heavily invested in Napoleonics but if I was getting started the vast array of rules, all with loud proponents would intimidate me. Fear of making a mistake and having to repeatedly rebase armies. "Mistake" could also be defined as a fickle market. Seems like there is a steady stream of new and improved rules coming along that cause the last fad to fade. Just my observation from reading the posts and articles in publications.

Cheers

I am afraid that my megalomaniacal nature would take over. I would swear to myself that I would only need a few figures, say a small unit of British regulars supported by a handful of riflemen, and of course an equivalent French force to face them. But it would not stop there – I would need to add cavalry and artillery to both forces. And then Spanish and Portuguese allies. But I should not miss the opportunity to build Austrian, Prussian and Russian armies as well. And I'll need to represent the black Brunswickers and sky-blue Bavarians. And there were those various Italian principalities as well. And you can't miss the Egyptian campaigns – any excuse to do up the Mamelukes!

And then I'd find that no one in my area is playing with 28s, and I'd have to redo everything in 15mm just so I could have an opponent.

I started it. Twice. Both times 15mm British.
Got pretty far the first time, had quite a few regiments painted, for Fire and Steel, with 24 man regiments…
Then, I had a Dream. Lakes of boiling blood, and all that stuff.
I immediately sold them.

Years later, I tried it again, this time with Empire rules. Regiments were half the size.
Then I got married, and realized the significance of the Dream. So, I sold them again.

I am not going to make the same mistake a third time.

I guess if this ever makes it to a real Poll, one of the choices has to be "Had dreams of lakes of boiling blood!"

I would do it. We had a group in college (late 1970s) that did 15mm, and everyone fielded their own army. Some had French, Russians, Prussians, etc. One guy just had Westfalians. No one had to have everything and we got together and had massive battles. If there is a group like that in the Midwest, let me know.

I started out with 15mm Prussians. Bought them painted, intending to game Plancenoit, then Warve, then Ligny, and eventually Waterloo. Had them based for Napoleons Battles but I never really fell in love with the rules.

I stopped collecting for a while but continued to purchase every rule set that was out there, again, without loving any. In the mean time, I stumbled across Calpe minis and purchased about 100 at great cost. I never got past painting up 1 cannon, 4 crew, 3 generals, and 1 hussar. I eventually sold off all the 15mm and 25mm minis as well as most of the rule books. For some reason, I held on to all of the uniform books, except my Elting books which I sold.

Over the years I toyed with collecting 10mm Nappies to game Waterloo, 1 of my top ten gaming projects, but never committed to doing so.

Last year, I noticed two new developments in the Nappy gaming world. #1, there were so many rave reviews of Black Powder rules that I ordered them. Since they covered Franco-Prussian and Colonials, two other planned projects I have, I figured they were a no brainer.

#2) Was the final large scale releases of plastic 28mm napoleonics minis.

Those two changes finally convinced me to revisit gaming napoleonics. I picked up a single box of Warlord Games Landwher and am planning on getting the Perry Bros Prussians when they come out in April/May..
It may take several years to accomplish, but Im in no rush. Ive settled on first doing Plancenoit and then Warve in 28mm using Black Powder. I figure I can eventually break the battlefield of Ligny down into 3 parts and game it in 3 different segments. I doubt Ill ever get any bigger than that due to size constraints in the house.

I must admit, it actually feels exciting being back at work on nappies rather than daunting. And starting with 1815 Prussians is pretty easy as the uniforms are pretty straight forward. Their Jagers and Hussars are as exciting as they get.

Any way, with the release of Black Powder and plastic nappies, I encourage those who have stayed away from gaming the period to revisit it. If you are worried about painting uniforms or not being able to game big battles with 28mm minis then go with 10mm minis. GHQ and Old Glory both make some excellent lines.

Cheers.

The people that play Napoleonics?

Paralyzed by choice…

Can't decide between 6mm and 28mm or is 15mm a good compromise. Plastic or metal ? I think I have rules I would like but who knows… Buy what about War Of 1812 – similar period but with "hometown flavour" as I live within a days drive of many of the battle's locations.

The research is a bit intimidating too.

Other periods I am interested in seem to have a more natural "fit" but something about Napoleonics…

If i had someone to play against I would get into it, everyone around here is into fantasy or sci-fi.

not enough boobies

Where do I land the dropship?

Do Grenadiers carry M-203?

Do I really have to lower my IQ to play

I have around 1000 painted 25mm Napoleonics that have seldom seen the light of day for around 10 years.

Issues are:

Rules: Although many profess to play Napoleonics, none can agree on what rules to use.

Scale/cost: 28/25/15/10mm All have proponents. Cost/space/storage are issues cited my most. Smaller figures don't do justice to the period uniforms which can be a bit involved but are really not all that hard to paint in 28mm.

People: Local folks are hopelessly splintered. This goes back to incidents many years past where play styles by some were viewed as cheating by others (and there is validity to this latter point of view -- even if it is sometimes petty).

Leadership: There is no one in the area willing to invest the time and effort to get things going and keep them going. That person is no longer me. Got other things on my plate.

Many of the above comments are rather unfortunate as they misrepresent the genera -- the blind leading the blind as it were.

The Napoleonic period might well be the very best period to wargame. There are a great variety of units, uniforms, personalities and the period extends over many many years with many many battles. It is a wargamer's delight. There is a wealth of information on the period and the research can be done with a minimum of bother. Much easier than when I started in the 70's.

If you are avoiding this period because of the nay sayers you do yourself a disservice. With the advent of the 28mm hard plastics, I predict a grand resurgence of interest in a great period to wargame.

Like Agesilaus, had massive battles in the late 70's. Played at the old Last Grenadier in Burbank.I built an allied/british army and most of the others built specific countries. We used Empire.
Doing some Bavarians and 95th Rifles for Songs of Drums and Shakos in 28mm and have some 15's for Age of Eagles. Keep thinking about doing Napoleonics in 28 but not too keen on the myriad of rules ? I enjoy painting the period and a 2X4 settles most picky uniform arguments

Pedantic silliness like this sours my enthusiasm for the period:

TMP link

Who in their right mind would want to be remotely associated with such repulsive muppets? There are quite a few good points to gaming this era (tactics, uniforms, etc.) but for me they're far outweighed by this sort of rubbish. Who the hell cares how many times a 12 pound roundshot bounces!?

I bought a couple of Victrix Peninsular War British boxes awhile back with the intention of getting into the period. Now I'm glad I didn't. I'll still paint them, but they'll be up for sale on Ebay where the revenue can assist me in purchasing and painting up forces for the 18th Century (WSS). The gamers there, at least, are still gentlemen.

I doff my tricorne to you!

What keeps me from starting Napoleonics? The sheer number of figures required, just to get started.

I bought a bunch of unpainted 6mm H&R Napoleonic figures from somebody else about ten years ago. Something like 5752 figures: Austrians, Spanish, Russians, and French. Even with that many figures, I don't think I have enough of the right figures to put together a proper army. So I haven't painted any of 'em.

On the other hand, since most of my wargaming these days is solo, I can play whatever rules strike my fancy, or write my own. I don't have to worry about other players making fun of my horrible and/or incorrect paint jobs, and I don't have to worry about anyone complaining if I put 1805 Prussians up against 1814 French.

For me in descending order of importance:

1. Other Napoleonics players, they tend to be a very special bunch of people.

2. The number of figures needed.

3. The lack of a standard basing system or a clear market leader in the rules department.

4. The cost of research material. I tried to do it using just Ospreys a while ago until I realised that none of the books on cavalry include the colours of saddle-cloths etc. Rather than buy more books unseen I binned the miniatures and sold the books on.

5. The space needed, I play on a 5'x3' max. table and that is apparently too cramped for most rule systems. Napoleonics don't seem to be as amenable to higher levels of abstraction as Ancients, ECW or WWII (my main interests).

6. It's just not as interesting as other periods.

Rules

In no particular order:

1) Scale/Scope -- it seems like you have to paint a ton of figures. One could build notional Nappy forces and use a simple set of rules like HoTT to get a game going quickly I guess. Though classifying everything as shooters, riders, and artillery may make for a boring game after a while. Would HoTT capture the flavor of the period? Perhaps only generally… Though I guess you could apply the standard Nappy national mods to the various forces.

2) Uniform Nazis -- As others have said… My painting skills are such that I have various techniques to get the minis on the table quickly so they look ok from gaming distances. I'd not be able to bear hearing "You didn't use the right yellow on this or that…"

3) Players themselves -- Not all mind you but I've encountered a fair number of overbearing types at the cons who get all sorts of torked out of shape if you maneuver your formations in a way other than they would have historically.

4) Rules -- I'm sure it aligns with the period but AWI, Nappys, and to a lessor extent CW kind of feels like checkers with dice sometimes.

When I started gaming (in the seventies!)The gamers at shows and other places were almost all rather surly, uncommunicative older guys who sneered at those who didn't have full knowledge of the period and a fully painted army before starting out. Add to the fact that (to me) back then, many napoleonic figures were of rather poor quality and often only saved by good paintjobs.
Nowadays things are much better, I own two sets of appropriate rules and may at some stage get a small force.

Napoleonic, No tanks.

"What keeps you from starting Napoleonics?"

The people who already play it.

I do game it, on the waves.

What stops me from doing land is probably the variety of troop types in the scope of it. In the WSS you have two or maybe three types of cav in an army so you can get away with some proportional representation of them pretty easily, infantry is mostly of one type with some different nationalities. Not so much with Napoleonics. I do game periods all around it so probably I will succumb eventually.

I have a recurring nightmare of a huge overbearing man with severe halitosis screaming and spitting directly in my face at point-blank-range about how the light mounted auxiliary vivandieres had "SLIGHTLY ORANGE VENETIAN BURGUNDY" bricoles instead of a "PALE ORANGE VENETIAN BURGUNDY on my figures and then tossing my figures on the ground and stomping on them with a heavy boot, whilst shaking violently with pent up rage and anger at my crime.

I am actually on my third time around. I started with 15s, sold them off and did 6mm for Grande Armee.

Rather than rebase when Lasalle came along I decided to do it again. Initially I had planned 6mm but when the Perries got going so did I so it is 28s.

French and British are in good shape and now I am working on Spanish and Portuguese for 1811 and Russians for 1812.

Blimey.
Some unexpected responses there.

As a Napoleonics player all I can say is we are not all anal (I am doing a 6mm Napoleonics vs Daleks game soon), not all of us care that much over colours, no more than say some WWII players about the correct shade of grey for the Germans.
Figures, play with rules that require you to have less than others.
Put less figures on a base than the rules say.

There is no Napoleonic games police that will attack you if you do it the way you want and not the way someone else wants.

Play with people that play like you would.
Don't play with rules lawyers, don't play with shouty odd types, don't play with those that demand you repaint your men in the correct period shade of dye for that one mans jacket.

It is interesting in that so many reasons stated are why I do not play WWII.

It is I think therefore not the period that is the issue, but like any social activity, the people that can put you off.

I have a recurring nightmare of a huge overbearing man with severe halitosis screaming and spitting directly in my face at point-blank-range about how the light mounted auxiliary vivandieres had "SLIGHTLY ORANGE VENETIAN BURGUNDY" bricoles instead of a "PALE ORANGE VENETIAN BURGUNDY on my figures and then tossing my figures on the ground and stomping on them with a heavy boot, whilst shaking violently with pent up rage and anger at my crime.

---

You were at that Con too?

Just kidding, I have known some nutty Nappy players, but most were nice guys.

No interest.

I don't want to do the period. Is that too hard to understand?

IF I did napoleonics I would use 6mm or 3 mm figures.

There is a great group (with exceptions) of 28 mm Nappie players in this area with easy and fun rules that sometimes I play at a local con. That doesn't mean I would ever actually build up any armies for the period.

Gracias,

Glenn

I've been playing Napoleonics since the 70s, but frankly I find them a bit dull now.

You don't need loads of figures (find/write a set of rules which doesn't need loads of figures).

You don't need fancy paint jobs (go 6mm or 2mm or buy someone elses army off ebay).

You don't need to argue about bricoles, although if that floats your boat, then go ahead.

I've just got bored of the whole thing, it is so tediously mainstream.

Interested readers might wish to refer back to the thread about posting while completely ed. I've just come back from the office Xmas lunch, which took in a pub or two on the way back.

I don't want to do the period. Is that too hard to understand?

No.
I am pretty sure he knows that some people don't want to.
His question was why won't you, he even gave some possible reasons.

I've been a Napoleonics gamer for forty years…with side trips into other periods along the way.

However

Pedantic silliness like this sours my enthusiasm for the period:

This. If I'd known such twerps existed when I started with those boxes of Airfix figures all those years ago, I would have probably chosen WWII instead.

The fannybatters who argue the minutest point in the name of 'accuracy' are more likely to be the death of Napoleonics than the so-called 'fantasy' gamers who just want a good time with a few of their mates. Not that Napoleonics looks like snuffing it any time soon, despite their best efforts to turn everybody and his dog off the period.

Unfortunately, the internet has given these poltroons a wider audience. No longer just the club bore (where everyone else probably ignores them anyway), they can bore the entire globe with their pedantry.

If you have no interest, that's fine. Diffrent strokes and all that. I've no interest in (for example) VSF, but I've nothing against those who have. As long as they don't try to bore me to death over minutiae…

And what angelbarracks said.

poltroons

Word of the day for sure.

Well, I started using Der Kreigspielers back in the 70's. Never got into 15mm. Recently have been painting up 1/72 scale figs. My buddy is convincing me to do a command in 28mm plastic.

Thanks,

John

I can understand how TMP's Napoleonic boards could put people off giving Napoleonics a try. They certainly do seem to attract more than their fair share of pedants and people who have turned up with an axe to grind. However, I think it's worth noting that these people never seem to be wargamers. The only person who is ever likely to tell you that you have painted a uniform the wrong shade of red is someone who has no interest in painting figures in the first place.

The amateur proctologists.

I hate painting infantry. Even though I have a rifle company in 15mm for WW2, it took me almost a year to get what I have painted and still have more to do if I want to finish it out for FoW. (thinking I won't though.)

I prefer painting small scale armor (1:285/6mm), ships (1:1200/1:2400) and aircraft (1:285/6mm). I even hate painting the infantry stands I need for my micro-armor.

"The amateur proctologists."

Surely proctology must be a calling rather than a hobby?

Naps is my fav-oor-ite period & I'm more or less normal. Maybe.

I'll concede there are a few difficult folk in naps but outside of the nternet I've never met any.

Oh & citing Hollins, winterfield et al on artillery

TMP link

is the same as going to the local Funny Farm & finding
there's a few screws loose.

Please include a selection for "I have no interest in the period whatsoever" because, really, that's it right there.

I mean, also, I'm interested in small scale skirmish games, rather than lining up hundreds of figs in big squares, and I don't think most Napoleonic action lent itself to that style of fighting.

But mostly the first one. Third is the involuntary twitch I get whenever I read the word 'bricole.'

Watching the nappy gamers at my local club spending more time arguing of the finer points of the shako II rules than having fun (well they maybe having fun but it doesn't look like it). Seeing that after a whole evening of gaming, their huge armies of poorly painted 15s have hardly advanced across their battle field of cut out felt shapes basically puts me off.

If I was going to do it, it would have to be using 28s with simple fast play rules and nice scenery. However I'd have to do the whole thing myself and I don't have the time or money(or a wargames table big enough) to do that.

As a painter, this period of warfare gives me the fits. Uniforms have become the rule, but bright national colors have not yet given way to camoflage. Despite the opinions, already broadly lampooned above, of some gamers of the era, there is no speedy way to paint the troops of this era. Either every button is done right and all colors are up to spec, or you really haven't started yet.

That multi-colored yet precise spectacle is one of the big attractions of gaming the era. As such, the wars of Napoleon are one of very few eras where I would fall in with the old grognard line about "fully painted or not on the table".

And since I rarely finish anything to that level and find uniforms annoying to paint as it is, I will never get into Napoleonics past the Sharpes "cast of tens" level.

Scorpio said it better but it still is just that I don't…

Why should anyone be interested in why I don't play "X" games? I don't expect anyone else to want M-i-i-i-i-i-c-e in S-p-a-a-a-a-c-e so I don't see why I should be asked to explain why I don't play Nappies.

Gracias,

Glenn

A bit grumpier than normal, yes.

SJDonovan "I can understand how TMP's Napoleonic boards could put people off giving Napoleonics a try. They certainly do seem to attract more than their fair share of pedants and people who have turned up with an axe to grind."

Pedants?

No.

Try first syllable rhymes with "class", second with "moles."

While I agree that the range of rules and figures needed can be daunting, I have to take exception to the reputation that Napoleonic players seem to have acquired.

I've met plenty of outright idiots on the *internet* to be sure, but I've never actually met and played in games with any of these sorts of people. Whether at local clubs or at conventions, Napoleonic wargamers have been more-or-less the same as other wargamers – in fact, they often *are* the "other" wargamers! For instance, I'm an avid gamer in other periods, including Colonials and even Fantasy and Sci-Fi.

Cheers,

Christopher

For sure Christopher – one of the reasons I run Napoleonics at a con is that I get a table of really great people usually – other periods tend to be more hit and miss.