"What scale planes do you use with 15mm land?" Topic

In case you have not noticed, I play Flames of War a lot.
We use Air in about half of our games. A raging debate in our group is over whether points spent on Air is worth it.
To me, it seems like they kill maybe two things per game. If that. Nevertheless, using Air in FoW does force the other side to take otherwise useless AA in anticipation, and to not bunch up. Whatever. That will never be solved.
Some pedant geek may analyze it mathematically, and prove yea or nay, but who cares what they think?

Even if I don't think it's worth the points, I still have 3 planes for all my armies.
(For my Finns, I use 1/144 metal True North Fokker DXXI fighters rather than the 1/100 resin AIM Fokker CXI because I am intimidated by the seeming fragility of that biplane kit. )

IF you use it, what scale do you use?
To be in scale with the game, "15mm = 1/100". I have painted some for friends, but they look too big, even if in sclae.
TO ME, 1/144 looks right, even if out of scale. They are also more fun to paint, and you can get a lot of prepaints. My P47s are terrific 21st Century ones from WalMart.

So, what scale do you use?

I have 3 1/100 Airfix mini kits of Thunderbolts. Perfect scale and no need to paint!

1/144 for the same reasons.

1/144 for me.

I use 1/100th scale, that way they can double as air support in the game and as on ground objectives in other games.

1/144 – 21st Century Toys….when you could get them from Walmart for a buck or two sealed that deal!

I also defaulted into 1/144 because that's the scale we use for Check your 6.

"I use 1/100th scale, that way they can double as air support in the game and as on ground objectives in other games."

same here

1/100 = 15mm

Anything else isn't the right scale: might as well use a mix of Battlefront infantry and 20mm vehicles!

I have a 1/100th Spitfire, 2x 1/144th Stukas, a 1/144th Fw190, a 1/144th Hellcat and I think it's a 1/144th Typhoon. It could be a 1/100th since I got it second hand but it's diecast so probably 1/144th. The Tiffie was a big plane.

Since the Spit is unlikeley to ever encounter the Stukas or Fw190 in aerial combat it doesn't really matter.

I tend to go with 1/144th when I have the option so they take up less space, but prepaint, and cheapness are the over riding factors.

1:100, for unity of scale – even when the variety is a bit limited. I like to use them for objectives, too.

Bombers or transports like the Ju52 are really huge here – but on the other side they have no real purpose as gaming piece, and as terrain it needs to be in scale.

I use 1/300 Heroics & Ros Sturmoviks with my Soviets and Tumbling Dice 1/600 Ju87 with the Germans and 1/600 P38 with my US Airborne. I just mount them on a regular small flying stand.
Aircraft are really only markers in Flames of War, in the same way that an artillery template is.

I use 1/144 21st Century aircraft for my Americans, and 1/144 Battlefront planes for my Germans.

The planes that Battlefront puts out for Flames of War are 1/144 supposedly because it helps with the perspective of them being separated by distance from the troops if they are a bit smaller. In any case, I think they look good, but then I have never used 1/100s.

I have a few 1/100 scale fighters for my Brits, but without them I would be looking at 1/144 for many of the reasons already stated. Also, even fighters are gigantic in scale, and dedicating large tracts of army transport to 5% of the points and in-game effect goes against the grain.

I don't play that game or scale! But my answers should still be helpful….

For 1/87 WWII, I use 1/100 planes, because they look better proportional to the tabletop action. If I played 15mm, I would definitely use 1/144 for the same reason.

In Blitzkrieg Commander, airplanes probably aren't worth it either on a strictly mathematical basis either. But on the rare occaision when I play a points-based, rather than historical-scenario game, I love to take planes. Even at the reduced scale, they are looming large scary objects hovering in my set-up area. This does help demoralise my opponent, and is well worth it! Games, and real battles, aren't won on math alone.

I also have a small DAK force in 1/285 so I have something to bring to a local club where they use that scale. For that, I did up a pair of 1/285 Stukas. They are scary and intimidating. 1/350 planes wouldn't look scary at all.

I use 1/144 because of the greater availability of lesser known planes. Our own MISCMINI has recently finished two CR42's for my Belgians for instance. I couldn't get those in true 15mm scale.

1/100 here

I almost always use subscale aircrat with whatever scale of figures. Real aircraft are really, really big especially multi engined bombers and just look stupid compared to ground forces unless you are using a 1:1 ground scale.

I often use 1/300th scale planes with 15mm stuff, as well as 1/144th. They are up in the sky and far away, seems to work. It partly depends on availability and what I've got in my planes box.

When we did Goodwood in 15mm, the fleet of Lancasters were 1/300th. They still looked fairly impressive.

I also use sub scale terrain.

I agree that the smaller scale planes look nice. However, the perspective is completely backwards. By nature of our height, we have an overhead perspective of the battlefield and the airborne planes are closer to our eyes, and thus should be larger. I propose 1/32 scale, at a minimum.

However, the perspective is completely backwards.

You are technically correct. However it presupposes that you are (mentally) "above the aircraft". Most people view aircraft from the ground so they look smaller than they really are. It is this perspective that makes the smaller aircraft seem right on the wargames table. In practice in our minds eye as wargamers we are above the ground but below the aircraft.

For my Italians I have Armaments In Miniature Falco 1/100. For Germans FOW stukas 1/144
My buddy has a lot of 1/100 planes. I do like both scales, but prefer 1/144 for table top games. The 1/100 models are a bit large and cumbersome for me. (Except the Falcos they were so small) Some of the 1/100 seem a bit top heavy and I am always a bit nervous when the get near the table edge. By the way does anyone have recommendations for what stands work best work best for both scales for FOW rules (other than FOW product). As you know the stand basses need to be a certain size for measuring purposes. I now use the same FOW stands for my Stukas and Falcos and want to buy the Falcos their own stands.

By the way does anyone have recommendations for what stands work best work best for both scales for FOW rules

Plastic glasses.

I use 1/100, except when I use 1/144, or sometimes 1/120. Seriously.

Tangent: John, if CXIs intimidate you, you could also use Brewster Buffalos and/or Moraine-saulnier MS.406s.

Damon.

1/300.

Matters not a fig to me.

I have some Air200 planes, those being 1/200 scale. Sheesh, the planes are just a marker for where the air strike is going in and they don't live on the table for long, so I got the smaller planes.

Tangent: John, if CXIs intimidate you, you could also use Brewster Buffalos and/or Moraine-saulnier MS.406s.

Damon.

Oh, I do. The first time I dared to waste Finnish points on air, I used the MS.406.

As for FoW flight stand, you can't do better, as suggested above, than to use cheap Dollar Store plastic wine glasses.
They even fit right over the target Tiger tank!

Not quite the same thing, but we have used 1/144 Japanese Bettys and Sallys as German gliders in a pinch… With the Italian Paracadusti and German Fallschirmjaegers, it was a true Axis attempt to take Malta!

Bad Cat Toys – great models prepainted at reasonable prices in 1/144 scale, great service too.

1/144

1/100.
I tried 1/144 but they don't 'feel'right to me.Too small.

Weird.

1/100th vehicles = 1/100th aircraft. How can it possible look 'too big' if it isn the same scale? It's not rocket science.

If anything, scale effect should dictate that you should be using LARGER aircraft when looking down onto the table from above.

1:600

1/100th vehicles = 1/100th aircraft. How can it possible look 'too big' if it isn the same scale? It's not rocket science.

In the same way that 15mm scale buildings are too big to go with 15mm scale figures.

If anything, scale effect should dictate that you should be using LARGER aircraft when looking down onto the table from above.

I believe it's called forced perspective.

1/144 for all the reasons stated. Looks better and doesn't overwhelm the figs. Part of the reason I started the "True North" 1/144 aircraft model line, but also because 1/144 is a recognized collector scale.

" How can it possible look 'too big' if it isn the same scale?"

I don't make the rules, that is just how it is:) If the ground and figure scale are 1:1 there isn't a problem, but almost every set of rules uses a reduced ground scale, and 'in scale' planes just look too big, almost as if they were pieces of terrain – it destroys the suspension of belief. Although clearly not for everyone.

I've even run games where the troops in the north were 15mm and the south 20mm (it was quite a big game). Sounds completely stupd, but it worked.

In the fantasy of playing a ground game, you are on the ground. Planes in the sky should look smaller.

In the fantasy of playing an air game, you are in the air. Bombing targets on the ground should look smaller.

That argument makes absolutely zero sense – in the example of both the ground game and the air game, you the player, are above the table looking down. If you want to cock around with scale, the aircraft should be larger than the ground troops in both cases.

If you were playing your 15mm ground combat game at eye level, then your argument about having the aircraft at a smaller scale would make sense if you were looking up at them (i.e. the Forced Scale Effect).

The 'reduced scale convention' argument makes zero sense either – that also applies to the troops, vehicles and buildings on the table, yet they're all at the same scale (although most people use under-scale trees – we don't).

1/144th aircraft to me look as if the two sides are having a model aircraft convention or are using UAVs.

1:100, Italeri and Model Power 'postage stamp' series

R Mark Davies, this is the prooblem we always have with gamescale an terrain.
Sure, 15mm buildings always look great with 15mm figures. However, they just have too big a footprint for the game scale.
Having a 1/144 Stuka or Sturmovik attacking a 15mm Tiger or JSII is not the same thing as having a 15mm Tiger attacking a 1/144 JSII.
You mayu think so, and I can see your point of view. However, I like 1:144 planes. To me I see no problem.

Hi John,

I've got no problem with that – my reaction was to the suggestion by some here that 1/100th aircraft were 'too big', which is patently ballhooks.

I'm not sure I follow you re terrain scale; yes, we're using a reduced groundscale that doesn't match the scale of the models. However, it's an easy fix to simply use one model building to represent a group of actual buildings. Thus the building model matches the figures, vehicles and AIRCRAFT.

;o)

"That argument makes absolutely zero sense…"

It makes rather good sense if like me, you dislike looking down at a gaming table, but rather prefer to have the table height closer to eye level.

In that situation, a 1:600 aircraft (or flight of same) on 12" clear acrylic rod flight stands look much more like the fixed-wing CAS I've observed in hundreds of training and test "battles", mostly here in the desert.

I admit that there have been exceptions: sitting with the FAC and CCG on a 150' hill, and having the CAS pass *below* us! Now that did look like 1:100 aircraft flying over a micro-armor game…

I don't have as easy a fix for building scale. When players suggest using a 15mm Hougomont as a chateau…

Allen

True enough if you play at eye level… but how many wargamers do that?

Re the Hougoumont dilemma – you can just about get away with that if you assume that the table-footprint of your nice Hougoumont model also includes the ornamental gardens, orchards and woods that surrounded the chateau itself.

I was looking at 1:100 scale aircraft today at a store and they do look rather large for the game IMO. I think the 144 seems about right. Also since the plans are a little smaller, they are easier to transport (maybe). That said, since you probably wouldn't have more than 3, space probably isn't an issue.

1:100 for me. Note that the airfix prepaints are 1:100, cheap, and light, so there are no problems putting them on high flight stands.

I use both. I have six pre-painted Can-Do 1/144th Stuka's, three of which are armed with the twin 37mm cannons. They are painted up very nicely and fit the bill for air support.

I also have three Battlefront 1/100th Typhoons. I had a heckuva time getting primer to stick to them. Three different brands of primer failed to stick to the confounded resin. At my wits end I appealed to my fellow TMP'ers for help. I took one fellow in particular's advice and sprayed one with Testors enamel Gray Primer let it sit for 48 hours and it finally adhered to the resin! YEEHAA! I quickly primed the other two models letting them cure for a further 48 hours. After that it was a breeze to paint and decal. All that pain was worth it as they look very pretty.

However after this negative experience I will no longer purchase Battlefront aircraft until they change the resin.

Anyhoo salut y'all!

Bruce the Texas Grognard

Bruce, the BF Tiffies are 1/144th.

Bruce, the BF Tiffies are 1/144th.

Really? I also have an F-toys or Wing Club Tiffy that is supposedly 1/144th. Its noticeably smaller than the Bfront models. Scale creep strikes everywhere I suppose. (sigh) Anyhoo salut y'all!

Bruce the Texas Grognard

Apparently so. All the BF aircraft are meant to be 1/144th.

If you want to check, the wingspan of a Typhoon in 1/144th should be 88mm.

>>> True enough if you play at eye level… but how many wargamers do that?

I am not responsible for how other gamers play. I do not like the helicopter view.

>>> Re the Hougoumont dilemma – you can just about get away with that if you assume that the table-footprint of your nice Hougoumont model also includes the ornamental gardens, orchards and woods that surrounded the chateau itself.

Ah, but when a single model's footprint exceeds machinegun or cannon range in the rules? Again, I am not responsible if other gamers do not find that jarring.

Allen