"61 65 any thoughts or reviews?" Topic

As the title says, I'm curious to hear what folks are thinking about the new Ganesha rules 61 65?
Thanks

I was interested in it but the formation thing seemed a little odd. Maybe someone can correct me but it seems as if the unit of manuever is a squad and yet they all have to remain in a line formation. I really don't picture 8-10 guys walking around like that on a battlefield in a small group.

I like the system it's based on though.

I am at a loss for why anyone would game the ACW at this scale?
VR
James Mattes

The rules aren't trying to represent a major battle at this scale. Just a small company level skirmish. Say a detachment of men heading in one direction ran into another detachment from the other side heading in the opposite direction. I don't think this idea is unique to these rules for this period (Brother Against Brother).

But really, why fight ACW at any level? Couldn't each scale have detractors that could make a valid point that the scale doesn't really represent what they think is the important parts of the war? Brigade/Regimental scale doesn't show the strategic aspects, stratgetic level games miss the details of the battles.

Cincinnatus
you can keep them in line, supported line, or column. Skirmishers move in pairs (each squad has two skrimishers available).

Vojvoda, the idea of gaming in this scale is to let player use a lot of figures, but still have each figure represent a single man. It's a kind of "zoom out" on the battlefield compared to our usual skirmish rulesets; still it's not as abstract in its representation of forces like a "wider zoom out" (a strategic level game) would be. Our customers are mostly skirmish players, so maybe they can "scale up" a little by adding models to their skirmish forces.

I didn't mean to imply that they had to stay in the same line formation. It's just odd to me that a squad would move around a skirmish level battlefield in any formation at all.

I initially thought each unit was a company which I thought would have made more sense but I don't believe that's the case is it?

If my understanding of history is correct then independent movement on a battlefield by anything less than a company was pretty unlikely in the horse and musket period in general and the ACW in particular.

I'd agree with you if you define "battlefield" as a named battle that you might read about in a book.

I don't think these rules are trying to represent that at all. I think they are trying to represent the countless encounters that happen between those battles you read about.

I do look forward to trying these at a convention. We have plenty of games for echeleons above company. Hope this works and I look forward to a review of a game or two.

Dont the rules specify bases touching?I play SDS,and I dont always see them as well ordered rank and file(even though the figures are sitting that way),but rather knots of men in arms length of one another.

I don't know what the rules say. All I can see is it looks like squads must be in formations and that doesn't work for me at this scale. The underlying system is a good system so it might work well for others who can see things differently.

I don't think these rules are trying to represent that at all. I think they are trying to represent the countless encounters that happen between those battles you read about.

Well, from all my reading on the ACW, it seems to me that when they weren't engaged in a major battle, the two sides generally got on alongside each other without fighting. So I'm not at all sure what these rules are trying to represent.

Margard, you have been reading different books than I have been.

bases are touching but that's just a gaming convention to keep the figures that compose a squad separate from the models that composed another squad, so you know who's who.

In reality, the men would be marching or even running at an arm's length/couple of yards from each other. If you want to visualize that, just put them on larger bases so the distance between two soldiers is increased.

You need to use an abstraction of sorts at this scale; otherwise, you'd have to move individually scores of soldiers -- a game would require many hours to complete, and lots of bookkeeping to determine the attrition level of the whole force.

You can see an example of larger (Napoleonic) battle fought with a variant of these rules on Sergio's blog at drumsandshakos.blogspot.com

Thanks for the link. Looking forward to a review of a game. Following a game is much better than a review of the rules. Hate to do a bad review of a book and not read it first.

Margard, you have been reading different books than I have been.

What books have you been reading then? My education is obviously lacking!

There were times when both armies were camped near each other, perhaps divided by a river and the sentries would not pick fights with each other. But there might be raids ordered by high command. When the armies were on the move, there were plenty of fights between skirmishers and scouts.

There might also be small nasty fights during lulls in larger battles, like the fuss over Rose Farm at Gettysburg.

I don't see why the ACW should be less of a source for skirmishes than any other war.

Margard,

Pick a regiment you are interested in, go to archive.org, and search for a regimental history for them. The Seventh Ohio, for example, has two regimental histories and a seperate history of Company C all available for free download. You can find several accounts of actions fought by small details both before and after larger battles that way. Unfortunately it is often with just a brief mention of something like "On this day our outposts clashed with rebel marauders." but you begin to get the idea that such small encounters occurred fairly regularly.

link

A Twiningham,
thanks for the great source of information!

My pleasure. Thanks for the fun rules!

In my reading today I just came across an action that exemplifies skirmish-level fighting in the ACW. This example takes place on 23 June, 1864 near Kennesaw Mountain, GA.

"Directly in front of our regiment and across the creek, which flows along the base of the mountain, is on level ground. At this point is situated a block-house and rifle-pits, the latter between the house and mountain, and both now held by rebel sharpshooters, who were continually picking off our canniers. General Geary, evidently contemplating an advance of his line, called for twenty volunteers from the Twenty-ninth (Ohio) regiment to dislodge these troublesome occupants of the block-house and rifle-pits. In response to this call two men from each company came quickly forward, and at once advanced across the creek and ravine. The rebels soon discovered the detachment; and opened fire upon it. Sergeant Griswold, of Company B, in command, rapidly advanced his men up the rise of open ground lying between him and the enemy, and with a rush amidst a perfect storm of bullets, closed on the rifle-pits, capturing all who remained in them.

We now approach the rear of the block-house and demand its surrender. The rebel lieutenant in command exclaimed from the window of the house: "You d-d yanks, take us if you can!" and immediately opened fire. The door of the house is soon battered down, and the rebels attempt to cuttheir way out. Finding themselves covered by nearly a score of rifles, aimed by determined men, all, with the exception of the rebel lieutenant and one other, threw down their arms and surrendered. The rebel officer fired on the captors and lost his life by his rashness. We now had a total of twenty-one prisoners. Several others were killed or badly wounded. The former were sent at once to the rear, and the little force deployed along the road to hold the position until reinforcements should arrive."

From "Journal History of the Twenty-ninth Ohio Veteran Volunteers, 1861-1865" by John H. SeCheverell, 1883.

link

I like the rules, i have black powder, but cannot ever buy the figures needed or paint them, the biggest unit in this system is "Large" which is 8 men, and a a total of two cannons, i was watching gods and generals last night, and even that its a big battle, it does focus on a small unit of men…

Look forward to playing them……..

A Twiningham,
Thank you for the quote. It is indeed perfect for our game so I have copied it on our ACW page here: ganeshagames.net/acw