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"HELP! TESTORS DULLCOTE AND GLOSS!!!!!" Topic


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5,114 hits since 2 Dec 2010
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SirFjodin02 Dec 2010 5:22 p.m. PST

Help!

I know that Testors Dullcoat dont hive enough protection but make model finish flatter. So I used Humbroll gloss finish to protection and then sprayed Dullcoat to remove the gloss. But My models are still glossy! I tried to shake can for 5 minites but result is same. AND on darker paint the glossy effet are more than on light painted area (My poor Tuaregs now looks wet :( )

But I used same can to make my dipped models flatter and they become REALLY FLAT :) So tha can is ok (Normaly I dont use dip, I just repaint zulu wars brits wich was painted not by me)

So my Question is:
What finishes is good to use before dull coat for protection? Because I read that if you ue gloss finish before dullcoat – the model will be protected very well.


PS. Sorry for errors and misspellings. I am very upset for my glossy Tuaregs :( :( :(

Don Manser02 Dec 2010 5:28 p.m. PST

Krylon Krystal Klear or Crystal Clear.
I forget how the market it these days.

DM

John Treadaway02 Dec 2010 5:30 p.m. PST

I've used it over the dip just recently and I have to say it works really well. Haven't tried it over Humbrol though….

John T

IGWARG1 Supporting Member of TMP Fezian02 Dec 2010 5:31 p.m. PST

Feels like your Dullcoat don't work with Humbroll gloss. My first though was to shake the can a try again, but you did that.

Try this. 10% white glue and 90% water, mix together. Brush it on just 1 figure, see what happens when it dries. It may be milky white in the beginning, but should dry flat.

SirFjodin02 Dec 2010 5:37 p.m. PST

2 John Treadaway – it works VERY VELL with dip. Removes all gloss, making them really flat :)

"Haven't tried it over Humbrol though" – and DO NOT USE :)

2 IGWARG1
"Feels like your Dullcoat don't work with Humbroll gloss. My first though was to shake the can a try again, but you did that." tried :( Same result :(

2 Don Manser
Krylon Krystal Klear? Does is gives protection and flatt finish?

aecurtis Fezian02 Dec 2010 5:38 p.m. PST

"I know that Testors Dullcoat dont hive enough protection…"

It always surprises me what people "know". Dullcote is a very tough finish. But in general, there should be virtually no difference in durability between gloss and matte versions of the same varnish or lacquer.

Some people like to use gloss under Dullcote because they can apply more coats of a less-expensive gloss finish; in my case, I use the very inexpensive Future acrylic finish and then a single coat of Dullcote to flatten it.

Allen

SirFjodin02 Dec 2010 5:40 p.m. PST

When you tell avout Krylon you mean this product?
link

aecurtis Fezian02 Dec 2010 5:40 p.m. PST

Krylon Crystal Clear, as the "Crystal" suggests, is gloss. It too is very hard-wearing.

Allen

quidveritas02 Dec 2010 5:43 p.m. PST

Water Soluble Varathane provides the hardest finish out there -- they use this stuff to finish roller skating floors!

link

You can get this in a spray can as well.

Spray on Water soluble Varathane followed within minutes by Tester's Dullcote.

The Varathane is hard as rocks when dry and will not yellow. The Dullcote is pretty soft but applied to tacky Varathane, it dulls the finish.

Ditto Tango 2 302 Dec 2010 5:44 p.m. PST

DELETED

SirFjodin02 Dec 2010 5:45 p.m. PST

I think this is Matt Krylon
link

aecurtis Fezian02 Dec 2010 5:54 p.m. PST

Tim, I believe it's very much an urban legend. Dullcoted figures may turn glossy with a lot of handling, but that doesn't mean the finish is wearing off. Run your fingers down the bathroom mirror, and the explanation will be clear. Figures probably turn glossy faster when handled alongside slices of pizza!

Allen

Don Manser02 Dec 2010 6:36 p.m. PST

When you tell avout Krylon you mean this product?

Yes. 2 coats of gloss.

Then x coats of Dullcote to your preference.

Don't spray the Dullcote in high humidity – 70 to 80 plus.

DM

zippyfusenet02 Dec 2010 7:01 p.m. PST

I own figures that are Dullcoted directly over their paint, others that are Dullcoted over Glosscote. Seems to me that the paint scratches off the first lot much easier than the second. Maybe my figures are just better protected by multiple coats of varnish, but that's how I finish all my figures now, Dull over Gloss.

SirFjodin, let your figures dry really well, say a week, and Dullcote them again. Testor's spray Dull and Gloss use the same solvents. If your Glosscote wasn't bone dry, your second spraying may have dissolved it and mixed the varnishes. I often have to spray on a second layer of Dullcote to kill the shine.

Beowulf Fezian02 Dec 2010 7:11 p.m. PST

It may be that you are spraying thick coats of Dullcote. Try lighter coats of Dullcote.

Personal logo Flashman14 Supporting Member of TMP02 Dec 2010 7:25 p.m. PST

Yup, I've never had a problem using Dullcote over anything but I do use Testor's Glosscote first nowadays.

Zippy and Beowulf and others aboave are right on: Wait til the gloss is thoroughly dry and spray the dull in light coats.

aecurtis Fezian02 Dec 2010 7:29 p.m. PST

A single coat of Dullcote may result in less protection. Back when it was cheap, I used to use only Dullcote: Dullcote in multiple coats, Dullcote in heavy coats, Dullcote in multiple heavy coats! The result: a flat finish that's very tough. Now, I need to save a little money, and have adjusted my method.

I never had problems with heavy coats, but I've heard that some people do. Some say that the new formula has changed the results they get, but I'm not sure how changing out toluene as a solvent changes the deposited lacquer.

Next time somebone claims the outer coat of Dullcote wears off, leaving the glossy undercoat exposed, so requiring a new flat coat, I hope someone will explain to me how, with handling, some of my figures that have only ever seen Dullcote have become glossy on the handled surfaces.

Allen

XRaysVision02 Dec 2010 8:02 p.m. PST

Krylon gloss withthe UV blocker first, then Krylon flat.

Alternatively, I use Testor's brush-on gloss the Testors's brush-on flat.

Leadpusher Supporting Member of TMP02 Dec 2010 8:26 p.m. PST

Check out Squadron Shop's December flyer. They have Dullcote and Glosscote on sale for $3.90 USD each.

Personal logo Cardinal Hawkwood Supporting Member of TMP02 Dec 2010 8:49 p.m. PST

as far as I know you cannot get Krylon in Sydney NSW Australia and you would be hard pushed ordering it o/s.. Dull cote is fine if it doesn't eat your acrylic colours, I tire of suggesting this but buy an airbrush and compressor and then use thinned down. with window cleaner Gunze H20 Flat Clear..well worth the investment if you intend to have a huge number of flat varnished wargame nodels and figures..
also the weather conditions have been a bit anti dullcote varnish over the last couple of days , humid etc

Personal logo Cardinal Hawkwood Supporting Member of TMP02 Dec 2010 8:51 p.m. PST

I use brush on Jo Sonja Matte Varnish, which isn't very flatte and then the Gunze H20..you may have trouble getting it as I have bought up much of the stock in NSW ,SE Queensland and the ACT

Personal logo Doctor X Supporting Member of TMP02 Dec 2010 8:52 p.m. PST

I have to agree with Allen on this. I believe it is more the oil from your fingers that shine up the figures rather than the Dullcote wearing off.

John Treadaway03 Dec 2010 3:52 a.m. PST

I have used both the new and old Dullcote with similar excellent results in most situations, if that helps.

John T

vexillia03 Dec 2010 4:27 a.m. PST

I hope someone will explain to me how, with handling, some of my figures that have only ever seen Dullcote have become glossy on the handled surfaces.

"… the observation that matt varnished figures become shiny on prolonged use. This is often ascribed to the "weak" matt varnish layer wearing off. Whilst this is possible it is more likely to be due to the transfer of sebum from the skin during use. The wax in the sebum will produce a nice shine and it will look like the matt varnish has worn off." – bit.ly/esRzTj

--
Martin Stephenson
blog.vexillia.me.uk
amazon.co.uk/shops/vexillia

Paint it Pink03 Dec 2010 4:49 a.m. PST

There is no difference between the use of gloss or matt varnish in terms of wear & tear. The only reasons I spray gloss first is that it's easy to tell what you've missed (as I use matt colours to paint with), and applying decals is much easier (eliminates silvering). Then I apply matt varnish, and one can easily tell if you have missed a bit, because it will be gloss.

SirFjodin03 Dec 2010 5:07 a.m. PST

Thats the reson I desided to use multiple coats! When I matt-sprayed my Aeronef wich was coated with gloss coat I realised that gloss+matt make paint almost unscratchable :)

I didn't know that Does Testor make Gloss coat. Does it become matt after Dullcoat. I try to gest Testors Glosscoat, and hope it will be ok :)

Thanx for helping!

Personal logo Flashman14 Supporting Member of TMP03 Dec 2010 5:42 a.m. PST

@Paint it Pink, I suspect you're right on that but everyone's anecdotal experience gets in the way, including mine.

So since I can't prove my way is best, I'm gonna keep doing it because it's comforting: 1 glosscote, 2 of dullcote.

XRaysVision03 Dec 2010 6:31 a.m. PST

@Paint it Pink -- Applying a gloss coat fills in the roughness of the paint and makes the colors more true. The flat then reduces the reflectivity of the gloss evenly. The total effect is an evenly reflecting surface with truer colors.

The bottom line is that there is more than just protecting the paint going on here. I strongly recmmend glossing then flattening.

TodCreasey Supporting Member of TMP03 Dec 2010 6:47 a.m. PST

I have found a coat of future before any spray varnish has been the toughest finish for me.

My figures that have worn have had more of an issue with the paint chipping on raises edges. I use the 2 coat method (one gloss and then one matt) over the future wash and I haven't had a problem since.

Allen may be right that I am having success because I use multiple coats

Todosi03 Dec 2010 7:17 a.m. PST

Silly thought, but have you tried the Dullcote can you are using on a different model? I have gotten the occasional bad batch of Dullcote that is actually gloss.

richarDISNEY03 Dec 2010 8:44 a.m. PST

aecurtis is totally right on this. Next time, don't bother with the Gloss.

May I ask if it was really humid the day you used either varnish?
eggnog

blucher03 Dec 2010 11:47 a.m. PST

I have used that same combination without problems.

The only thing I found is too much/too close a spray will actually give a glossy finish.

paranoid painter03 Dec 2010 10:12 p.m. PST

Multiple layers of clear coat finishes (either gloss or matte/flat) is what provides the best protection, in any case.

The thing is, more than two layers of most matte/flat finishes will result in fogging in most cases. Too many separate levels of matting agents residing on the surface of the model is what causes this.

Preliminary coats of gloss, which of course have no matting agents, eliminate this problem while allowing you to apply more total layers than you would otherwise.

Flashman14

It's all explained very well in vexillia's article.

Providing your anecdotal evidence would be helpful. I'm pretty sure whatever it is it can be explained from vexillia's point of view.

At any rate, what you're doing is the proper method. It's the reasoning behind what you're doing is where the confusion is, I think.

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