"Tiger II versus Abrams" Topic

Nor the fire control aspect. Even a slick M1 could engage at night out to 2500 meters with a better than even chance of a first round hit, daytime just as easy if not easier. A tigger could not do that. A slick M1 fires VERY well from the move, even against moving targets. A tigger does not do that either.

CPT Jake my experience is more with CAV types than regular tankers, but they sure seemed to be eager to zap anything they could, as far out as possible. Besides, I know a lot of military personnel who are tank nuts and it would nott be at all unusual for a crew to be able to identify a tiger.

These threads always amaze me. If the Tigger was so awesomely cool as to still ber viable, then why dont the Germans build them still? They seem to be able to crank out some [pretty good tanks, but have not made a tiger in a lot of years. I guess a Leopard just does not have the cool factor that tigers do, no matter how much better of a tank it is.

The T2 is interesting for a number of reasons. On one level because it's a perfect exemplar of everything that was wrong with German engineering: needlessly overspecified in two areas (gun and protection) at a heinous cost in others (mobility and reliability).

Another reason is that the thing is so awesome compared to what it was up against that it was clearly far too good in certain areas. I mean, why did the thing need to be able to shoot through 7 inches of armour from 1km away when no opponent had anything like that amount of armour? The JS2 would have been its most heavily-armoured foe, yet reputedly someone in a Nashorn once took one of those out from 4.6km away.

So I guess the appeal lies in wondering how long it would have stayed competitive for, given that it was grossly over-gunned.

The Tiger's cool factor comes from seeing such a huge tank before the idea of dating girls arrives. Abrams tank arrived post-puberty, didn't get as much attention.

M1A1 was built with a specification to be proof only to 30mm weapons outside the front 60 degree arc.

But a modern 30mm GAU8 is not a 37mm PaK36. 30x173 has a muzzle v of 3500fps, while a PaK36 has a muzzle v of 2500fps.

Konigs Tiger v Abrams.. Abrams wins in I would say 99.9%. That irish man Murhpy and his Law, is probably worth 0.1% for the Kongis Tiger.

However.. Abrams v 150mm Iranian Artillery shell buried in the road.. hmmm see you tube for the footage!

I recall 'COJONE EH' M-1 was taken out by a 90mm HEAT round from a RR during Thunder Run.

Wasn't 'COJONE EH' set on fire by a RPG-7 hit then wrecked by an airstrike and recovered later? And a Tiger II would suffer the same fate as the M1 if it ran over an Iranian IED. Robert

However.. Abrams v 150mm Iranian Artillery shell buried in the road.. hmmm see you tube for the footage!

So the Tiger crew are better off making IEDs out of their main gun ammo, removing the tanks MGs and using their empty tiger as bait. When the Abrams is disabled by the IEDs the tiger crew can machinegun the Abrams crew when they bail out?

There is no such thing as a tank that cant be killed. It is only a matter of how hard it is. A 155mm shell underneath pretty much anything takes it out. Or, if you build to stop that, you lose your frontal protection. It is all a trade off.

90mm HEAT probably has a much better penetration than the 88/L71, if it has a more or less modern warhead. And it is not like a Tiger II could standf up to it either.

You can start a full company of M-1s at an objective, and not be surpeised when they all get there. You probably could not get a full company of T-2s togather to start with, much less get them all to the objective withouit the enemy even doing anything.

T-2 wasnt bad in its day. But that day was long ago. Why not compare a FT-17 to a T-2?

Owen

Any word on how the crew of the Abrams hit by the IED eneded up?

Wanna bet a crew of a tigger would have done a LOT worse?

Jake

I'm going to go against the prevailing opinion here, and say that I think the Koeningstiger will win.

In any year before 1976.

All the best,

John.

LOL.

So broadly, a Tigger 2 versus an Abrams is about like a Sherman versus a Tigger 2?

No, I think a Sherman battalion has a better chance of getting around the side of a King Tigger unit (since you'd only see 4 out of the entire company, max).

And there are a lot more Abrams in service.

I see more than four…

YouTube link

"But a modern 30mm GAU8 is not a 37mm PaK36. 30x173 has a muzzle v of 3500fps, while a PaK36 has a muzzle v of 2500fps."

Oh, hell, the Pak 37 "Doorknocker" couldn't even properly handle the French Char B1bis or SOMUA S35, and nevermind even denting the Matilda II…

As for the Tiger II vs. an M1A1 in a stand-up fight? Firing a conventional 88mm AT round against Chobham composite armour designed to deflect 100-120mm…? And let's asume the 88' round even penetrates the vehicle; there's the likelihood of surviving M1A1 crew staying put and continuing to fight thanks to the onboard firefighting system and other passive measures…

… now about that Tiger II's conventional steel aromour taking a hit from a 120mm depleted uranium penetrator round…

Y'all must be kiddin'!

Leland R. Erickson

Isn't this rather like asking how an Assyrian spearman would fare in combat against a member of 43 Commando?

"Well then, if the commando fell down and hit his head, and went unconscious for a bit, the spearman would approach and …".

I would give a Tiger II absolutely zero chance against a T-72, forget about a current generation Western tank.

Well if you are going to make a Tiger II vs. M1 match … you may be better going for a Jagdtiger or Maus … But my money is still on the M1 …

I guess if the Tiger got a lucky shot, and destroyed the crews' mobile phones, internet access, and next months supply of porn and DVD copies of CSI then the crew would surrender

Surrender? more likely to hear an unholy scream from the inside of the tank, immediately followed by the sound of 1500hp trying to shred the transmission as the Abrams charges the Tigger's position at somewhere above 70kph. And an awful lot of 120mm cannon shots.

You do *NOT* mess with a servicemember's contact with civilization if you want to continue breathing!

Naaah, they'd surrender alright.

"I don't know what a GAU8 is though, to be honest."

Without doing any research, I am guessing he's refering to the current iteration of the 30mm gatling cannon found on the A-10 Warthawg (ie., the weapon that throws out several thousand rounds per second of depleted uranium that turns an MBT such as a T-90 into a colander in the blink of an eye, and don't tell the poor shlubs using those T-90s that the pilot is a twenty-something former prom queen who decided to follow her Daddy's footsteps as a jet pilot in the USAF, and failed to make the F-16 cut and is now taking out her frustration on anything and anyone she can catch with her A-10..).

Best just stop your T-90s, bail out, and scatter for cover as fast as you can, boys!

Leland R. Erickson

A-10's a better plane than an F-16. Your prom queen should be proud.

@Ditto T: Yup, the 30mm gun from the A10. I think the no-suffix Abrams is rated to take hits from *that* outside the frontal arc.

@Christot: you haven't been around many servicemembers in the field, have you? The quickest way to really irritate someone is to not allow them contact with home. It's almost as fast if you lose or break someone's DVDs.