"REALISTIC Territorial Claims To Terraformed Mars?" Topic

Assuming that today's nations were still around as such by the time Mars was ever terraformed . . .

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modifiedmars.com/album

QUESTION:
Do you think that it could ever be broken up politically the way depicted in any of the following speculative maps?

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QUESTION:
If not . . . then how do YOU really think it would be split? And why?

Here are a couple of blank maps for you to play with, if you so wish:

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Dan
PS. I wish I could read what this one says:
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I think all terraforming of Mars will be halted when it isfound to be lethal t the native population. If it proceeds anyways, I think any current map fails to account for the all-new political divisions that will divide THIS planet long before we attack Mars.

That's why I established the criteria above:

1) Based on today's national territories on Earth, and relative strengths*; and
2) Assuming terraforming is truly successful

Thanks,

Dan
* Basically, do you think that nations that have felt suppressed here on Earth would have exceptional blossoming colonies on a terraformed Mars? Or will the only thriving colonies be those originating from Earth's superpowers?

I think it will come down to who's putting the money into the colonies – "I claim this territory in the name of Google"
Then at some point someone will figure out that their neighbours picked a better spot then them and get around to sorting out their differences in the usual fashion

I declare dominion over Mars, and all the other planets, moons, and asteroids in our solar system.

Whoops. Some terrorist space camper bangs into a comet the size of Texas and sends it into Mars. Game Over. Thanks for the playing. If you have space travel, you have space terrorists.

Another quality drive-by message.

Yikes, Augustus. But plausible, in theory, along with Space Pirates.

I just hope that Mars colonies sponsored by Israel and Muslim nations keep a good distance from each other.

beth-elsa.org/be_s0912.htm
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Either that, or another planet goes to hell.

Dan

No way, man. That just gives another reason to buy GZG New Israeli forces. Shalom, suckaz!

If it's worth something … humans will fight over it … Until the Martians say otherwise … Or some other aliens show up ! But I like some of the links ideas, regardless … Love the RISK board !!

I hope people leave religion at home when we get off world. I think that Mars will start out mostly under the control of the big powers but small nations will start a land grab for national pride. I would like to think we would all work together on Mars but someone will start something. If we have been able to terraform mars then I would think space missions are easy to start up so everyone will want a bit of mars. If man can get there man will fight over it. Unless someone can force them not to. I would think by then China will be the biggest superpower.

I think a corporate Mars more likely. Regions divided by Cartels, heavy resource investing. That's where Jimmy Hoffa is, anyway.

Whoops. Some terrorist space camper bangs into a comet the size of Texas and sends it into Mars. Game Over. Thanks for the playing. If you have space travel, you have space terrorists.

And people sit on their hands and do absolutely nothing for the 1 to 2 years it would take for the comet to actually hit… why again? If a terrorist organization has access to the energy to redirect an asteroid onto a Mars collision path, then a government or private organization certainly have the energy to do as so well, or to deflect an asteroid off a collision path. And impact time for any asteroid or comet would be measured in months or years- plenty of time for action to be taken. A pretty terrible way to try to threaten someone- 'you will ALL DIE- in 18 months…'. Terrorism via asteroid redirection is pretty much a non-starter- not fast or effective enough.

Now, terrorist space craft slamming themselves into orbital habitats, that's a different story. One reason I think that any deviation from a stated flight plan would result in a ship being destroyed immediately, no warning shots or questions asked.

-Will

Also, on the original topic, terraforming Mars would be a massive international effort, involving government and private entities. I suspect that in the Mars would be split up via a grid and the territory would be divided up among the contributing entities. If the US and China contributed 20% of the total project funding each, they get 20% of the territory. There might be some competitive bidding process or horse-trading over particularly valuable pieces of turf. Anyone who didn't contribute directly to the project would likely be shut out completely.

-Will

New Toronto? They should finish the original first

Interesting thought – one wonders how, after a generation or so, the locals (colonists born on Mars) would think about this

It would probably be under a UN flag with any nation that could contribute sending people resources into the project.

Cybertron and all its moons belong to me!

Any division of Mars will be done by the nations that have the capability to reach and settle it.

So, basically, you can forget Latin America, Africa, the Middle East, the South Pacific, (including Australia and New Zealand), and the bulk of Europe.

The current contenders are:

1.) China. They seem to have the most vigorous manned space program going.
2.) The U.S.. Despite recent decades of decline (if not outright neglect), it has the greatest level of experience, expertise and advanced technology in the field.
3.) Russia. Solid, down and dirty tech that works well and reliably— and they seem to have knack for modifying it to meet new demands.
4.) Japan. High tech, high cultural interest, and willing to attempt the unusual.
5.) India. Growing technological capabilities and experience as well.
6.) ESA consortium. Likely to be hampered by political infighting.

A dangerous and distant 7th— Iran. Assuming somebody doesn't blow their rockets up before they get off the ground.

Maybe, just 'cause they seem to be up and coming— Brazil.

I don't think Israel has the political will or interest, nor really do the Arab states. I also don't see any current signs that Australia, New Zealand, Canada or the other former British colonies have any interest or infrastructure in place to pursue manned (or even unmanned) space flight. Africa will be lucky to have any significant industry at all, much less aerospace capabilities.

As for the UN… well, YouTube link

Yea, right.

Whatever moron's can put there flag up there first, can have that red/brown colored piece of crap.

I get so ed off when I hear about these plans to spend Billion's of $ to go to Mars!

How idiotic and wasteful can these idiots be.

SUN OF A BISCET EATER I NEED A DRINK!!!!!!!

Good night all.

Just skimming the wikipedia page on asteroid mining (and Mars is quite a lot bigger than any asteroid):

At 1997 prices, a relatively small metallic asteroid with a diameter of 1 mile (1.6 km) contains more than $20 USD trillion US dollars worth of industrial and precious metals.

The asteroid 16 Psyche is believed to contain 1.7×1019 kg of nickel-iron, which could supply the 2004 world production requirement for several million years.

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The asteroid belt alone is estimated to contain between 1.1 and 1.9 million asteroids of a size larger than 1 km (plus millions of smaller ones) (also from wikipedia). Now you do the maths to see if a few billions of $ is wasteful or a very good long-term investment.

Can see how (for practical purposes) suddenly infinite resources could trigger a war or two (or prevent them), on or off Mars.

"The Case for Mars"

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It sure would be pretty from space . . .

Dan

First, the UN Outer Space treaty needs to be modified.

Besides Mars, there would also need to be control of the various resources that enable Martian living. A big toroidal magnet at Mars-Sol L1 to keep radiation low. Maybe a fresnel lens to increase sunlight strength. Dark-coloured regions to absorb heat. Nanobot swarms in the upper atmosphere that open silvered petals at night to trap heat (I think this is my own original idea… hmmm possibilities for a paper there?). Orbital elevators. Etc.

The current ISS model is a good guide. It's the largest international project in history. Nations make "in kind" contributions; supply vessels, physical chunks of the station, and get to utilise the station accordingly (such as sending up X number of people).

I don't think we'll have territories, but then again the Russian do have to go #2 in their own space potties. What may happen is that there are "spheres of influence" where certain nations own certain (artificial) resources which dictate the pattern of settlement and exploitation.

Far from territorial friction, I think people down there will be peeved at having to live in artificial boundaries. It's widely documented that going to space and seeing the Earth from orbit changes a great many astronauts, and I strongly believe that there will be a fundamental difference between "Earthers" and "spacers." Spacers will inevitably see themselves as human first and nationalities second, unless you start shipping up loads of nationalistic bigots.