"Berthier's Death" Topic

The testimony of the last living person who saw Berthier, Ms. Gallien, tutor / governess of the children of the Prince de Wagram (excerpt from an article by Franz Jakubass Der Marschall und der Polizeidirektor)

"On June 1st the Prince of Wagram was in the bedroom with his wife, then between noon and one o'clock went to the the childrens room, on the top floor of the residence. He inquired into the conduct of the little prince and princess. According to the statements of Ms. Gallien, he complained of dizziness, his tongue was still yellow. He moved to and fro in the room, deep in thought. He bit his nails, then noticed that Prussian troops were passing the window, complained that the parade did not stop, he said: 'Poor France, what will happen to it, and I'm here! ". He left the window, asked Ms. Gallien when she was leaving with the children, because the car was ready to go. In response to Ms. Gallien she could do so only after the Prince of Wagram had to walk away, it went into the office. Ms. Gallien heard the door open again, where the prince was, heard a noise, he immediately thought something had happened to the prince. Once in the room she do not saw the prince , she notes nothing else that the seat between the dresser and the window was still trembling. It was when Ms. Gallien had heard the roar from the street that the accident had happened. "

Version of the General Thiébault

"The first versions that I heard was hehad been thrown through the windows of the palace of Bamberg, which he occupied; by officers of a regiment which was marching through the city ,and it was said, that they vindicated in this way a young man who had been held by his orders and shot in 1809 at Schoenbrunn. However, after making all possible investigations to uncover the truth, I arrived at the conviction that Berthier was mounted at the top of the palace of Bamberg in order to watch this regiment of foreign troops marching, who for the second time would sully the soil of France . To better see without being seen, he was placed on the entablature of a skylight and there was no support. Struck with apoplexy, he fell into the void and came crashing to the pavement. That at least is the version agreed with the story of the butler, with the belief of the family, with the information I could get … "

Who beleived that?.
In the first version he was ready to go to his carriage with his wife and childrens, and suddenly… he felt down the window!. The chair which was trembling, why?. He was seat there and he suddenly take impulse and jump?

The second one was rare too.
Berthier was hidding his presence but his family was at the street with a carriage?.
I had seen the pictures of the building from outside, but there are not a picture from inside to see the distance a man need to fall down that window.

Are there more info about his dead?
What are your opinion?
Sorry for the bad translation.

Amicalement
Armand

So – we have one witness – Madame Gallien – she clearly states that Berthier was alone in the room, no other officers there, he just said good bye to his children who went out for a ride in a carriage – which he couldn't take part – because he was under surveillance.

Berthier was not hiding his presence at all, the day before at the evening he had a dinner with a lot of Russian officers.

He did watch apparently a brigade of Russian dragoons, in the distance. No unit passed the street directly under window, otherwhise he would have fallen directly into them and plenty of witnesses should have been available.

for more see

PDF link

So… he jump!.
Not accident, nor murder.
I cannot understand why, a Marshal of France didn't shot himself as were usual on that Era.
But more confuse me that having two beautifull childrens, he even said "good by" properly to them (not mention his wife).
A Very strange case!.

Amicalement
Armand

There nobody was in the room – when he fell out of the window – all is open to speculation.

Like that he did not sit on the chair but used it to stand on it to have a better view on the Russians when he lost his balance.

Armand,

I doubt seriously that Berthier committed suicide-it wasn't in his character. To accidentally fall out of a window, the man was at least sixty years old and he had been in failing health in 1813 and 1814, is entirely possible.

Sincerely,
Kevin

Yes, the tutor/governess said that he was ill.
But take my atention the part when she said: " the door was open (by whom?), heard a noice (what kind of noice? there are many possibilities, nobody ask to her which noice was?)and the seat was trembling (?!)…"
Trembling because of what?
When more I read this I'm more confused.
There were any police information?
On that Era I supouse that the police made writting work too!.

Amicalement
Armand

The noise was then the chair on which he stood fell to the ground, read the article – see above links.

There were police information, again read the article – see above links.

He told Madame Gallien before he died, that he did feel unwell, that his tongue has still a yellow cover.

Then Gallied did hear that the opened the door where the night stool – was and then she hard a noise.
The noise was created when the comfortable chair dropped.
Assuming that something happened to Berthier she rushes back in and finds still the arm chair rocking on the floor on which assumingly Berthier stood – to have a better view on the Russian Dragoon brigade passing – please note – not directly on the street where he dropped, otherwise he would have fell on top of them.

What should the police report – other then the fall, there was no secret spy hiding behing the tapestry.

My opinion, it was an accident, he lost his balacne and fell.

But again – there nobody witnessed his last seconds before the drop, all is wide open to speculation.

There is no confusion at all – specualtion yes – but only if it was an accident or suicide.

The suicide issue was raised after his death – but his fahter in law wrote a complaining letter in French to the Bavarian king – that there were no indications of any suicide notion.

How odd. This is all now duplicated from the original thread.

No one ever died by jumping or being pushed from a window, or even from the subsequent fall. Hitting the ground is what does the damage…..instant deceleration. Blame gravity and relativity. The mass of the earth curved space and drew him in and "down". After that, I cannot remember if it was the weak or strong internuclear force (I think the former) that meant his molecules could not pass through the molecules of Bavaria…so he had to suddenly stop…….has to hurt…..

His head injury caused dizziness due to otolithiasis or cupulolithiasis (bits of otoconia floating in his posterior semicircular canal)………..no, I do not understand a word of this either, but I diagnose it all the time (irrespective of whether right or wrong) and have some clever folk who know how to fix it in seconds

Gravity actually pushes us down rather than draws us down… ;-)

Cheers,
Bob

Now you've got me wondering……………pushes…….dark energy as a repulsive force accelerating expansion, yes, but never knew that gravity pushed, instead of pulling!

Poor old Berthier, that was probably the last thing on his mind as he fell. Thinking about it, whatever he was thinking was probably the last thing on his mind………