"Lances given to Russian Hussars" Topic

Y'know von Winterfeld I am of a similar opinion.

What I just don't understand is how people who are knowledgeable in their field, eg Russian Napoleonics, can fall for the typical TMP baiting and get themselves banned. I'm too old to learn Russian, so I'm more than happy when someone can translate something relevant. I'm saddened to see that my main sources have been hounded out of TMP.

Maybe its a semi-Nationalistic thing, +1 for Brits etc, we all should know that since 1990 valuable sources have become available for those who wish to learn. Whether we believe them is up to the individual, but at least we should have the choice.

But then you have knowledgeable people who cause problems and get themselves banned….

Those with the knowledge aren't always the nicest personalities who should be revered no matter what, just as often they can cause the issues and problems because they assert who they are and how right they think they are. Sometimes they are arrogant and feel they are above the law and treat others with little or no respect either!!

There is a right way to explain how wrong another might be and then there is the wrong, arrogant and self righteous way.

It takes two to tango

Perhaps the Russian Hussars were given Lances for the same reason that the French Hussars were (1813-14?), see image by Knotel in the Elting books. Illustration shows a 14th Hussar, Blue Trousers, wearing a Brown Pelisse, armed with a lance with a white over green pennon. Green is the same colour as the portmanteau and shabraque trim.

Maybe it was fashion, after the French had been evicted from Russia, in no small part by the Lance armed Cossacks, maybe somebody just thought it was a good idea.

Yes I remember Un-Ami, and regret his leaving, but as long as there are folk with vested interests who want to sell books at every opportunity, or just peddle their version of the truth and cannot stand either a constructive critique or the thought that they are not the fountain of all knowledge, who can insult others with little fear of retribution, then we have a problem.

(And no I do not believe they all know who they are!)

Please remember, not all folk have US-English as their first language, but they are not automatically sub-human if they do not swear allegiance to the same flag as me/you, at least, that is my opinion.

Rabbit

@Timbo W

I agree a pity – maybe it is just what some people wanted to happen – to get rid of some very knowledgable persons.

remember, it is the decision of these members to leave, no one elses unless they do the wrong thing, then it is Bill's decision. No one is twisting their arms to stay or leave. Trying to place blame is ridiculous and naive.

About those lance-armed hussars . . .

Apparently, the hussars WERE trained by lancers loaned to them for the purpose. Here is a partial report by Bagration shortly before the 1812 war:

In accordance with highest orders, the first ranks of several hussar regiments have been armed with lances. This weapon is rather advantageous and all the more useful since, being a native implement, it has elicited a certain satisfaction on the part of the men when it was introduced and during training in handling it. In a short time the men are well trained, but one had to observe the inconvenience occasioned by the carbine as it hangs from its hook. In trials where the lance was handled in its various positions both with and without a carbine, everyone found that the lance was handled better when there was no carbine. Taking all this into account, and desiring that the lance as an advantageous weapon attain its full and excellent purpose, I must humbly request that Your Excellency obtain highest permission to dispense with the first ranks' carbines (Note 7).

awesome!!

Thanks Widowson, that is a great find

The lance is a cheap weapon in an army that has probably lost many swords in battle. So converting the front rank to lancers was probably a good idea at the time. As sword production/captures caught up with the demand, the lances would be retired. Or given to the new Ulans. The lance is held both by the hand and by a strap. The strap keeps the lance upright while on the march. and allows retention during spearing. Thus it is very difficult to 'drop' the lance during combat, even if you want to throw away you weapon.

Fair logic. Historically though, at the at the time the lance was adopted by the Russian Hussars, the units initially so equipped had been in peaceful garrison duty for c4yrs (these were ones not fighting the Turks in the Balkans), so I suspect economy/lack of supply wasn't the reason.
Also, cavalry swords were, like lances, also secured by a wrist strap/swordknot at this period.

I think though your contention does probably reflect what happened when the Opolcheniye militia cavalry units were formed in 1812- many of whom who did have a shortage of sabres initially IIRC.