"Soviet Tank Badges - Order of the Red Banner?" Topic

Purchased a decal sheet from OG a while back that has both Guards division badges, and Order of the Red Banner badges. Problem is, I cannot locate any references that indicate the Red Banner badge was used on armor. Have a slew of Russian language armor books, the usual Osprey's, and a few others lying about, even checked the web to no avail.

Does anyone have a reference to this being used as an insignia on Soviet armor? Either WWII or Cold War?

Link to badge in question:

link

And the Skytrex/OG decal sheet:

picture

Thanks,

Paul

CW,
You would normally see the Red Banner badge on vehicles if the unit had been awarded the Order of the Red Banner. I don't remember, though, if you would see it on tanks and vehicles, or just vehicles. I also think that Zaloga references it in one of his books, but I cannot get to it tonight. If you'd like, I can look tomorrow.

Zaloga DOES give at least one instance of this being done, in his Osprey book on the KV1 and KV2. Here is the link:
link
BWW

I've also seen one picture of it on a T34 Model 43 but, unfortunately, am away from my books right now.

These illustrations are on the Russian Battlefield site and are, IIRC, taken from the Squadron book T34 in Action

picture

picture

BWW & Frontovik, many thanks for the links and info! Have the Zaloga book on the KV series, will take another read through today. Frontovik, don't have the squadron T-34 book, so those illustrations helped considerably, thank you!

Will also give a read through my other sources today as well and see what else I can come up with in terms of examples and how common/rare this was for units that were awarded the Red Banner to place the badge on vehicles.

I'm afraid my extra research struck out too. Zaloga's book The Eastern Front shows the ORB badge in a series of markings, but doesn't tell how it was used. My Osprey book is the old Vanguard on Soviet heavy tanks, so doesn't have the same plates as the KV 1-2 book.

I went to another book I have entitled, "Camouflage of the Tanks of the Red Army 1930-1945." It's a translation of a Russian book that came out about 10 years ago. What it says is as follows:

Besides the tactical and identification markings, armored vehicles also carried markings for collective honorific unit emblems, which were among the most prestigious in the Red Army during that given period: the emblem of the Guards (formations or units which had the Guards title bestowed upon them) and the Order of the Red Banner (formations or units which receive the Order of the Red Banner) then had then honorific "Red Banner" included in their titles. Notwithstanding the fact that there were other collective awards, their stylized application to combat technology was suprisingly seldom encountered.

That last sentence is frustratingly vague. Is he saying that the Red Banner was seldom encountered, or the "other collective awards" or all of them? I don't know, but remember that from 1930-1941 there were only 20,000 ORB awarded. During the war, over 305,000 were awarded (McDaniel and Schmitt, Comprehensive Guide to Soviet Orders and Medals). So, I would say that you could use them, but only sparingly, unless you are modeling a Red Banner unit.
BWW

BWW,

I also looked through Zaloga's Eastern Front and the Osprey Soviet Heavy Tanks books, to no avail as well. Both Osprey books on the T-34 had nil, and I struck out on the other English language books. Though a few Russian language books made mention of the Red Banner, nothing on application to vehicles. One book in the Frontline Illustration series (and I am digging through them again trying to find the info) mentioned a red stripe being painted around the side/top of the turret in lieu of the badge marking.

Camouflage of the Red Army book sounds interesting. I would lean towards the opinion that what it may be saying is that application of the badge itself (in both the Guards and Red Banner cases) may simply come down to the crew choosing to apply it. This would make sense given the high visibility of the emblem, and some Guards divisions later in the war had their own unique white symbols instead of the Guards badge. So, in example, not every vehicle of 8th Guards Army would have the Guards badge applied, but it would probably still show up in some smaller units within the Army.

That's my take at any rate, I'll just keep digging until I can find something solid stating otherwise. BTW, wiki gives the following list of Red Banner awarded units (can't speak for how comprehensive it is):

link

I think you've hit upon a very sensible way of doing it.

It is the oldest Soviet award.
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