"The Pacific" Topic

Rocky bought this and we watched part one and two last night. He was sharing stories from his uncles (most were European theater though, but Rocky's very well-read on the 2WW generally). The Pacific is factual.

As a kid I was fascinated by The War, and all war stuff generally (go figure). I distinctly recall being creeped out by the pictures of the Pacific theater; the dense jungle of the tropics; the imagined (and sometimes mentioned) huge and pernicious bugs, spiders, snakes; the rot, disease, humidity; the hidden enemy inside the growth of jungle flora that hid everything a few feet away; too much water too little land; too much rain, etc. and etc. It creeped me out: Europe made much more sense.

I went into this film tribute to the American veterans of WW2 with that emotional base still very fresh in my mind.

First it was Saving Private Ryan; then Band of Brothers; now The Pacific. Almost like a trilogy of film monuments. Each time (this time is still on-going of course), I am affected the same way: I am dumbfounded that the Baby Boomer generation thinks that their Fathers are/were sane. How did they raise us with the horrors of war embeded in their minds for the rest of their lives? In my experience, none of the vets I knew talked about any of it with their kids' generation. Perhaps, as Rocky experienced as a teen, a father or uncle would come to us and warn us: like Sledge's physician veteran father did: "The war didn't just tear their bodies; it tore their souls out of them. If you return to us and I can no longer see the light in your eyes; if the love of life is no longer there, it will break my heart". But I never contemplated the military as a career choice, so nobody every said anything to me. All those dads and uncles and neighbors stayed silent as the tomb. Just having Spielberg and Hanks and Company portray it in film this long afterward is enough for me. The tears of memory of all those veterans were shed in private and in silence, hidden away from their children: they kept the world we grew up in clean as possible from violence and horror. This is true of the fathers and their wives, our mothers, everywhere on the planet. So I am grateful to the makers of these films for paying tribute to the silent, secret sacrifice and pain that they have born for a lifetime to see that their children and grandchildren and great-grandchildren have a better, safer, saner world.

The scene near the end of part two illuminates this best: the mess orderly gives the four survivors coffee and watches them sipping it like a sacrament. He hesitatingly says, "I guess it was pretty bad here, huh?" (words to that effect, a paraphrase) None of them say anything and he turns to leave. One of the veterans of Guadalcanal asks: "Who told you? Nobody knows about this place". The orderly says: "Everybody knows about Guadalcanal. The First Marines are on the front of every newspaper in America. You're heros". The four veterans look at each other in dumb amazement….

It has its critics, but I really enjoyed The Pacific. I wasn't too familiar with that theater of the war before, but I have been doing more reading since watching the series. Sledge's With the Old Breed is now (IMHO) a "must read" WW2 book.

It is definitely hard to watch, but you can't tear your eyes off it.

I liked but didn't love it. I read all the books and I even met Eugene Sledge when I was with Kilo company 3/5 back in the 80's and 90's. I think they should have picked a regt and stuck with it through the war, any of the Regts would have worked but I have heard from too many people that they were confused and could not keep track of the characters. The uniforms, weapons and tactics were really great but there just wasn't enough fighting not like band of brothers. The show wasted time with New Zealand and the mental ward crap we didn't need to see that instead they cut short Okinawa and Iwo Jima because of it.

Beautifully said, Doug!

Really well done, I thought. Agree about Sledge's With The Old Breed. Leckie's book Helmet For My Pillow isn't bad either.

I did not appericate the series till it was over , then it washes over you . The horrors are from all times in all wars . recently in the Series " Boardwalk empires" Jimmy ,a WWI vet, was asked to fill out a survey because so many men were coming home with troubles . Makes one think about this "New " afflication affecting troops .

Well put Doug.

Like a lot of people here, I grew up in it, sort of, and that's why I'm on this forum in the first place. I was born in 1953, older brothers born in '42 and '47. Dad was in the PTO, 27th Div, at Saipan & Okinawa. He survived the largest banzai attack of the war at Saipan, although his unit was literally chopped to pieces. He never talked about it, only rarely. My '47 older Bro and I would ask every so often, but he just wasn't interested in talking about it much, except some of the non-combat things. It wasn't until 1995 when he told us he carried a BAR--we always figured he was a rifleman. His silence might have something to do with the jar of gold teeth he brought home, which he eventually threw out.

He was a good man and a great Dad, but he never liked the Japanese after that experience. Anyway, we watched Victory at Sea and You Are There/The 20th Century before I was 5. '47 older Bro installed a love of military history and focus on WWII in me during those years. I played my first wargame in around 1958…'47 older brother lined up our plastic army men (hundreds of 'em!) and used a simple card system to work out the battles. I played army outside ALL THE TIME until about age 12.

'47 older Bro volunteered for US Army in '65, volunteered for Paratroops, went to VN 1966-67 as machine gunner in 1st Air Cav (2/8th), through attrition ended up squad leader. When he got home, he had a little trouble fitting in, slept out on the picnic table in the back yard for the first couple of weeks. Dad's only comment in all that was "Get over it." He did, actually in a way that Dad and many others did…making a good living for his family, and being a good role model. But at least my Bro talks to me about his experiences, and even wrote a book about them to boot.

I lived in a midwest small town (2000 people at most) and as a kid, EVERYONE'S Dad/Uncles were in the War in some capacity. We heard the war stories when we'd be with our Dad at the store, and a couple of vets would be in there and they'd get to talking…Bob Green, B24 co-pilot shot down in '44 over the coast of the Adriatic, picked up by Tito's guerillas, and whisked back to Foggia via the pipeline before his parents even received the "Missing in Action" telegram…"Windy" Blizzard, B17 Tail Gunner surviving 25 missions…Billy Robinson, holding and comforting his dying squad leader on Christmas Eve, '44 at a place called Bastogne… Milo Wallace, one of 36 82 ABN Div men to drown in the Merderet River on June 5/6, 1944. You get the picture. I'm choking at the moment. Wierd at how my life is so relatively meaningless (and easy) in comparison.

I think the non-combat scenes were important to give an overall picture of the war.

In the Pacific it was an island campaign with multiple simultaneous fronts. It makes sense to follow three soldiers that were not all in the same place at the same time. I agree it was a little bit hard to follow but I had the same issue with Band of Brothers the first time -- who are all these men that dress the same?

The USO tour and training at Pendleton and marriage and re-enlistment are important parts of John Basilone's story and help show what a true hero he was. He could have done his part of the rest of the war away from the front lines if he wanted. In US history, he's the only Medal of Honor recipient who returned to the front lines and died in combat. I would have liked to see more of Iwo Jima but on the other hand, Basilone died early in that campaign and we were following his story. And Sledge at Pelieleu and Okinawa was probably similar enough. So the little bit of Iwo we got was probably just right.

I'd agree the New Zealand segment maybe could have been shorter. But a drunk and disorderly incident there was why Leckie was moved to scouts which is part of his story, and a love affair there that ended is another part … remember this is the guy who through the whole war wrote love letters to a woman whom he barely knew, but never mailed them, then when he did get home, set his sights on her and married her.

Also it's important to show how huge the support infrastructure was that kept these guys fighting. One aspect of how bad the conditions were was that Leckie's health deteriorated so much he started wetting his bed and had to be evacuated to a hospital for a while. Who knows, maybe that's why he survived the war, not being shot at during those weeks. And we saw soldiers in that hospital that had cracked up from the strain, and likewise we saw at least one incident of a Marine on the front lines who WASN'T evacuated when he cracked up and then commited suicide … and Leckie went back to the front lines.

And I also thought the incident with the orderly at the hospital was telling, who after getting a bloody nose wrestling a crazy soldier said "this is as bad as the war gets for me". Like the mess hall sailor someone else already mentioned, and like the civillians in New Zealand, these people were important to the war effort and appreciated what the front line men were doing.

If we needed to see all of that extra stuff fine I would have prefered the series to be 12 or 13 episodes instead of 10.

Just bought the DVD in the UK today for £24.99 GBP from Sainsbury's Supermarket where its on offer.

I watched the first six episodes and I must admit found it very good watching.

So Irish Marine, you are sure what you want, either more or less!

LOL, just kidding.

My Grandfather was in the army and fought in the philipeens when we returned there. He would tell stories of his time in the servic but never about when he was in combat. He had a stroke and lived about a year after then, only then did he tell of some of the things he saw in combat. 50 years after the fact the big man I always knew growing up had tears when he told of holding a friend who had been shreaded by a machine gun as he died and other horrors. I flew with a guy who flew P-38s in the pacific and told of how they would have to attack japanese caves just so to get the napalm into the right spot or how they made pass after pass on a japanese ship with the 4 50cal and the 20mm untill it sank. The difference between the western front and the pacific and even the eastern front was that as bad as the western front was if you surendered you had an ok chance of surviving, in the pacific or eastern fronts it was a war of anilation neither side gave or expected quarter.

"Wierd at how my life is so relatively meaningless (and easy) in comparison."

"And gentlemen in England now-a-bed
Shall think themselves accurs'd they were not here,
And hold their manhoods cheap whiles any speaks
That fought with us upon Saint Crispin's day."

My dad never talked much either – (ETO) until late in life, the best thing was I found a book on his outfit – sat next to him while he looked a the pics – he would recognize someone and then tell a detailed story I never heard before about guys he hadn't seen in 50 years.

(And I don't rememebr the names of guys I went through ROTC with 25 years ago).

Where are the guys like that now? What happened. Doesn't anyone want to be like their Dads anymore? What a sorry world we've become.

God bless them all.

It is a great story. A lot of good WWII movies and series these last years (Saving Private Ryan, Thin Red Line (my fav),Band of Brothers, Flags of our Fathers, Letters from Iwo Jima, The Pacific)

"Where are the guys like that now? What happened. Doesn't anyone want to be like their Dads anymore?"

If you noted their fathers would rather had not seen their boys go through the same. These are not a heredetiry military aristocracy existing just to wage war and valuing a martial ethic above all. Being good people was kinda more of a priority. That said your question could partly be asnwered by the current in service people and only fully answered under conditions of a draft.

I thought it was very good. And if anything should entice others to read Sledge's and Leckie's books and others. My father was an Infantry SGT in the ETO, with the 90th ID. Got wounded in the Lorraine Campaign in the Fall of '44. He talked little about it but did on a few occasions as I got older. Especially when I decided to join the Army … He too thought he'd rather not have me join, for obvious reasons, the Infantry let alone the Airborne. But he was proud none-the-less. He was decorated with a Silver Star, Bronze Star and Purple Heart. Lost most of his hearing in one ear from German artillery and/or mortar fire, during the Campaigne. … And I'm watching HBO's "Boardwalk Empire" and noting alot of scenes deal with one of the main character's WWI Infantry experiences. As well as him meeting another vet at a VA sort of hospital. Who was terribly disfigured. Just a note to all … on Veteran's Day, 9PM[21:00 hrs], HBO is showing a new documentary … "WARTORN 1861-2010" … Should be interesting …

Hi

My uncle was in the first, and I first heard the Basilione story from him, while drunk, as "hero italian kid". My uncle could not stay out either, and later in his cups talked about the 5 guys from his company who survived.

When I lived in the PI, I associated with so many survivors then. Including my best friend's dad who had gone "native" after the death march, was a guerrilla in the Cabanatuan raid. Local negrito friends took me into japanese caves still boobytrapped with corpses still in place.

Anyway, most of the pacific guys had a similar story about the disconnect in their lives of being on the line, being yanked out and the going to australia. My uncle referred to "TnT" girls which would be a little too obscene here for me to talk about. But the issue was the jarring nature of fighting, safe at danced, civilians, back in the fight. So, I appreciated the scenes others hated. My uncle and my friends all had some story like this as well as the rain and the bugs.

Rocky

Wierd at how my life is so relatively meaningless (and easy) in comparison.

That is a natural, expected reaction. But to honor them, we Baby Boomers have to accept the effort our parents have been making all of these years. Gratitude is the thanks we give. This is revealed in actions.

To show that gratitude, it seems to me that we need to participate in how our Nation is governed. That's the "war" that every citizen must wage even in so-called peace time: but We The People don't do that. Baby Boomers are largely addicted to the pursuit of prosperity and false security over liberty.

I won't make this political. Suffice to say, that the reason why our parents joined the fight that was WW2, is because they believed in defending a free world for their own children (all of us, the as-yet mostly unborn), and helping our Allies do the same, or rather, to win back their homelands from the Axis powers that had taken them away.

Our repayment for that enormous sacrifice is appreciation, gratitude and continuing the battle to defend liberty: mundane and insignificant by comparison though our role may seem….

(Look at that, Rocky: we posted at exactly the same time, again; that's twice; third time, our universe blows up?…)

or maybe prosperity is the way to repay them. Here in Greece the generation that survived WWII just wanted it's children to prosper, get a better education then them, and would consider their sacrifices worthy if their children did not fear starvation, door knocks at the night, and had a better education then they did. People attack our attachement to prosperity but I would dare say that is a result of the fact that our parents and their parents wanted us to have (espeically after the Crah, starvation etc)

I think the series will take a while to gain the appreciation it deserves. There is some action but not all action. Some other stuff too and this is not what some want to see.

I think less is more for combat scenes anyway. It gets numbing and repetitive after a while. Shorter sharper sequences have more impact. If a battle or campaign drags on an on – like most do – it is best dealt with in dialogue or failing that a caption or voiceover.

Many get the impression that a firefight only lasts a few minutes when in fact in might take hours to knock out a single MG position that has troops pinned down.

I haven't seen all the series yet – but I expect I will eventually. I'm glad it was made and that it has been seen by millions who otherwise never would have known much if anything about the war in the Pacific.

I was born during WW2 and grew up among veterans. My own brothers and sisters were too young to go, but to this day my next eldest brother talks about seeing the Yanks arrive, marching down our street from Port Adelaide. They were told to halt and were allowed to sit as long as they remained in their formations. It was a hot day and they were not permitted to break ranks, so the soldiers called out to the kids to go to the local shop and get drinks and icecream for them. My brother tells how he made so many trips back and forth that he could hardly walk by the end of the day as one group of soldiers moved on, to be replaced by another lot. My brothers and sisters were given tips by the soldiers and kept at it for hours. Eventually the closest shops sold out and they had to go further and further away, sometimes coming back to find the group that sent them had moved on, so they had to go along the lines looking to see where those soldiers were. The tips they got totaled more than our father earned a week as a skilled aircraft machinist.
Dad thought they should give the money back, but of course the soldiers had moved on so he spoke to the rear party and offered the money for their canteen fund or something. But the sergeant asked the children how much the average tip had been and when told, said those soldiers were a bunch of cheapskates! He told dad the kids had more than earned it having worked hard for six hours.

At the same time many of the ladies from the street were out there with jugs of cordial and cups of tea to keep the soldiers refreshed. Some produced sandwiches for them and my mother baked cup cakes all day, taking out fresh batches as fast as they were cooked, giving them out and refusing any money.

A few days later some of the soldiers (now camped not too far away) came back to thank the people in our street for helping out on an extremely hot day, when the delays had been much more than expected. From that many of the Yanks made friends and while they were training there came to visit in the evenings to listen to the wireless or enjoy a home cooked meal. Every house had its own group of Yanks.

From time to time they would bring things for the street and that was the first time our family got to eat 'Spam'. But eventually they had to ship out, most leaving contact addresses with their adoptive Aussie families.

My parents often talked about 'their boys' and how devastated they were to receive a letter, not long after the soldiers left, saying that all but one of our family group had been killed in action in the Solomons and New Guinea. Sadly there was a post script on the bottom of the letter, added on by a nurse to report that the soldiers who wrote it had died of his wounds before the letter could be sent. I only know him by family stories of 'Hank', but he and the others were dear to the whole family.

So I was really pleased to see PACIFIC include Australia and the way troops were taken into Aussie homes. Also that they reproduced the homes and shops so authentically. It really brought tears to my eyes to see that and the way everyone was dressed so realistically that I could have sworn I was there in the movie.

My city has few relics of the Yanks. But one remains…the old PX and HQ for soldiers on leave was quite a substantial building, which they handed over to the city in 1945. I have made a point of showing it to my children, just as my father showed it to me. I know my kids have now been showing it to my grandchildren because it is an important part of history.

There were some unpleasant things that happened, mostly due to General MacArthur being too authoritarian with the Australian Government and disdainful of our war effort. But the older people I knew as I grew up always spoke of it as two things quite separate. There were 'our Yanks', who were the ordinary soldiers adopted by many families….and there was that bastard MacArthur!

I think from that comes the rather odd Australian attitude that lasts until this day….that we get on so well with ordinary Americans….but dont trust their governments (regardless which political colour) at all!

I think THE PACIFIC was a great show and I'd love to see more like it.

The father's best friend was a submariner aboard the Grampus
and was killed in action. My father joined the Navy the following year after graduating from high school and became a torpedo man on a sub. In his letters he always mentioned the great people and country Down-Under.

PS. Personally I never got the whole MacArthur thing.

Personally I never got the whole MacArthur thing.

The issue for Aussies was that he sort of threw his weight around rather a lot. Insisted we move our Capital from Canberra to Melbourne for the duration because it was more convenient for him…and the US Army.
He bullied the government into making laws he wanted. Also to change things so US Military Police had power to do things they would not normally be able to do in a friendly country. That enabled certain high ranks to also throw their weight around. He also played down the role of our veterans that came back from fighting Rommel and generally won their hate too.

But as I said….while the Aussie population hated MacArthur with a vengeance….and his officer corps….the average 'Yank' was welcomed into Australian homes as a friend. So its a strange mix of unwelcome and welcome. I think it has carried over into the modern day because ordinary Americans are always well received here….but the arrival of any US Politicians and the subsequent disruption to traffic etc is always met with complaint.

The bonds between Australia and the US were born before WW1 when the Great White Fleet called at most ports.

It was strengthened in WW1 when ordinary Diggers fought alongside Doughboys. The US Big Red One was intermingled with Aussies for training and saw much of their first action with them too. There was some higher command complaints about Blackjack Pershing interfering, that were shared by the US troops and Aussies.

Between the wars the US fleet visited regularly and ties were kept strong through US sailors mixing with Australian citizens.

So when WW2 came along and the Yanks arrived, they were greeted not only as allies and a shield against further Japanese advances, but as friends. "The Pacific" pretty accurately shows the way Australians reacted. A few young blokes naturally resented Yankee young bucks chasing their girls, but over all the reception was pretty much as shown.

Good post tuscaloosa … I like that quote from Bill S. …

I'm three episodes in; I'm enjoying it, but I don't feel it's as quite good as BoB. Still a great watch, though.

Third time through and it's still throwing up surprises. I hadn't noticed the US flag recovered on the beachhead, and the symmetry of the soft toys didn't register. As a depiction of a descent into hell, Episode 9 would be hard to beat. I think the on leave and back home episodes were needed to lighten the mood if for no other reason. I wonder what happened to Tojo and FF.

This still tells all:
TMP link

Saw parts three through six this week. I got confused by who was getting killed. E.g. I could have sworn that "Snafu" bought it at Peleiu, then shortly afterward there he was: also, I thought one of the main characters got seriously wounded earlier in the same battle, and almost in the next scene, he shows up at the homefront and visits the family of his buddy! I am left wondering who the two characters WERE who got shot up. I guess I won't figure that one out without a rewatch.

Am enjoying this series very much over all….