"Left out of battle system" Topic

I'm curious how the LOOB system was used in the British army in WW2. Was it used in all units in Normandy right from the start?

Was it applied even in unblooded units (like 15th Scottish) or only in units that already had a veteran cadre?

Thanks in advance.

Greetings

As far as I am aware LOB was applied to all infantry battalions. It was certainly used by 43 (Wessex) Division in Operation Jupiter in July 1944 which was their first big action.

The intent, drawing on WW1 experiences, was to leave about 10% of the fighting and command elements out of battle to allow the unit to be able to be reconstituted even where there were crippling casualties.

Regards

Edward

LoB usage is difficult to pin down for British units. My understanding is that it wasn't officially recognised (in the sense that there were instructions for its implementation issued from on high) in British units, so those that opted for it had their own interpretations.

Commonwealth units by comparison routinely practiced it, and it crops up in Canadian and 2NZEF accounts. I'd be interested to know myself how widely British units used it, and the typical percentage and duties of those held back. If you can get the search to work I think it's cropped up here before as well?

Gary

I can only echo Edward's and Gary's comments above. It regularly crops up in anecdotes and memoirs, but I've never come across it in official documentation and histories. My guess is that it was pretty much universally applied except in extreme situations, such as a last-ditch defence.

Greetings

A few examples.

One, unfortunately without details, is from 6 Royal Welch Fusiliers operations order no.2 on 21 October 1944 which under 'Adm' (for Administration' has the entry:
"20. L.O.B. Details issued separately. LOB personnel will report to Q.M. at A Ech with unexpired portion of today's rations and rations for 22 Oct."

The history of the Worcester Regiment, referring to the 1st bn (in 43 (Wessex) Division refers (p50) to "The Divisional policy of leaving numbers of officers and men out of battle was frequently to be justified and it was unfortunate that on this particular occasion, heavy opposition not being anticipated, Battalions had taken all officers with them for the sake of battle experience. [all officers of A Coy knocked out by a mortar bomb and CSM LOB – command taken over by the senior sergeant]"

Regards

Edward

A bit of detail at least, thanks for posting. So just 20 men LoB in that example, and sounds like they got saddled with carrying the rations as well! One suggestion I'd seen is that the LoB would be held back initially, but rejoin in the consolidation phase to help offest casaulties incurred and bring up supplies?

Starfury Rider wrote:

sounds like they got saddled with carrying the rations as well!

No it doesn't. It sounds as if they were ordered to report carrying the unexpired portion of their rations, and their rations for the next day.

Carrying food supplies to A echelon would be a bit like carrying coals to Newcastle.

All the best,

John.

Great feedback so far. I admit I didn't even try to search – but will.

It seems like a really sound idea to limit the devastating impact of having a whole squad/platoon wiped out. Using the LOOB personnel as reinforcements also makes sense. Maybe they would make their way forward with extra replacements. Possibly, they would replace some of the tired or lightly wounded men who would then be LOOB.

Still a lot of questions because it seems to have been an adhoc system applied slightly differently in different circumstances.

I don't know on what basis people think it was "ad hoc" or "not officially recognised". AIUI it was pretty much a universal practice before a "big push" from mid-WW1 onward.

If there seems to be little documentation on the practice, I'd guess that the reason is that there is a lot of historical interest in "G" matters, precious little in "Q", and practically none in "A".

All the best,

John.

I guess my use of 'ad hoc' was not quite correct. I meant there were no fomally laid down procedures and it was left to commanders in the field to implememt as circumstances dictated. Not that it wasn't common practice.

Well having down a few searches on the interweb the last couple of days, results for 'left out of battle' bring up a shedload of Great War links, closely followed by a slightly smaller shedload of Canadian Army links. For the most part the British descriptions refer to officers being LoB, as with the below;

link

The descriptions I've found seem to tip towards a number of officers and senior NCOs being held back, to preserve some part of the command structure. I don't recall it cropping up in 18 Platoon at all, though it's a few years since I read it, and that is the most detailed Platoon level history I've found.

I did find this little nugget from North Africa, which actually gives some numbers;

link

I also posted a query on another forum, which is usually frequented by those with access to war diaries and the like, but it's currently sinking down the posts with no replies to date…

And a minor brainwave, had a check in 'With the Jocks', and LoB gets a number of mentions, this being the best;

"In case casualties were steep, it was decided to institute a system called LOB – Left Out of Battle. One or two officers, a few NCOs and a handful of men would take a turn out of battle from each company, to form a nucleus around which a unit could be more easily rebuilt with replacements. However, after this, our first action (Walcheren Island), we were to find ourselves so continually short of men that the idea never could operate properly."

After that there are a half dozen references to particular officers or NCOs being LoB for periods. From memory, LoB does appear quite often in armoured unit memoirs, but Armd Regts already had a surplus of crews built into their establishments to operate a system of reliefs; that and the tanks sometimes broke down…

Gary