"SciFi: 6mm vs 15mm?" Topic

I find that 10mm has been a most liberating choice for me.

I, OTOH, find that 10mm combines the painting time per figure of 15mm with the figure count of 6mm, and ends me up with never getting anything finished …

If I get back into SF it'll probably be 6mm, unless it's pure infantry skirmish.

I appreciate the acknowledgement of my role as Lord High Determiner of Objective Reality. And with this comes great responsiblity, for unless I specifically use the words "In my opinion," or "I think," my angels promptly descend upon the earth and their Wands of Reality Enabling are waved, Making The Word Reality.

Need one really point out what is already obvious … that a person saying that gaming models are too small is a statement of their opinion? My answer to that would be "no," but horses for courses.

Michael you will probably find an answer to your question lurking in tone of the responses to my comment. For an analogous demonstration of that, join the DBMM mailing list and the Field of Glory mailing list and you'll see that one list doesn't even allow the mention of the other set of rules. The other list has no such restriction. Can you guess which set of rules has been more widely accepted?

Not usually good to go tit for tat with sniping, but one was so delightful I simply had to respond -- speaking of tones, as Covert Walrus would tell us, it's really not good to have one! Searched "covert walrus" and amongst the very first TMP posts I got were such toneless responses as:

CC, most people who find your first conditions laughable would also find the concept of a creature able to compete with humans on such a footing as the Mimic to *also* be laughable.

The scientific term for these peopel is 'morons'. The socila term is 'community leaders' or more specifically 'executives'. Type examples – the board of GM. QED.

Yeah, I'm in a bad mood today. The basic idea is not bad for gaming purposes, CC, and if you must game with limited imaginations then it will work nicely. BTW, when did you start gmaing with Bickertons?

Wow, just wow!

Right below that one (also from TMP):

Not AGAIN!!!!!

Americans are so obsessed with sex, they invented the word 'rooster' so they didn't have to say the other word . . . and Star Ranger has it right; I notice no-one is bothered about the resemblence of the Sa'Vasku to the genitals of medusae jellyfish and starfish, which only goes to ignorance.

Interestingly enough, it *does* mean that you oil-grabbers are going to go without one of the best fleets currently available in the FT canon – which makes going to GZG-ECC much more attarctive to me and others :)

Because, you see, it's not good to have a tone.

Thank you, Lampy … But if you notice in the links I posted … one of my SM units, the Emperor's Children is in Early IDF Desert tan/pink … picture … But not bright pink ! A matter of fact all my units are in tactical colors … No circus colors for me …

Porfirio, I suggest you check *when* I made those quotes, then cross reference them to which political party was in power in my country, and then think about certain countries in the world and their internet policies ( If you need assistance in this, ask Google ).

And anyway, have I been any less didactic than you have been? Objectively, no. At least my opinions are those of a majority of people ( In charge of this country, if not living here or around the world ) and as we all know, the majority is always correct. And really, are you so browbeaten in real life by job, partner and life in general that you need to attack people you don't even know from the anonymity of your computer screen to bolster your most precious resource – your self-esteem?

*sigh* back on topic.

Angelbarracks, that's a good point – I am old enough to remember when 15mm came out as a serious rival to 25mm, which was only about 10 years after *that* scale had its appearance against "toy Soldier" scale (42-48mm) and "American Scale" ( 54mm – seriously, that's what a lot of people called it as the Europeans had gone to 25mm); The word 'blobs' was bandided about a lot as was the 'opinion' that it should not be used at gaming clubs. And due to that 'opinion',, for a long time you COULDN'T use it at gaming clubs as you would be asked to leave and free up a table for 'serious players.'

Right, got it, it's ok to have a tone as long as you think you're justified in having a tone. Sorted!

Covert, Porfirio, both of you calm down and have a or three. It's only a discussion about toys!

Lion, I never thought anything else myself – it was Porfirion who changed the subject.

Anyway, on the subject, am I the only person who plays company *and* Squad level with 6mm at various times?

Yes, I remember it well, how Lovejoy asked what are the benefits of 15mm over 6mm and I changed the subject, saying that a benefit of 15mm over 6mm is that you can see them, which you can't for 6mm.

Good thing you came along and steered the conversation back on course by saying that you didn't like my tone.

Well, thanks for all the info everyone!

I think the arguments over 6mm being blobs are inevitable – I love 6mm, and have sculpted loads of them over the years, and I like to think they are very detailed figures; but 3 feet away on the tabletop and an individual figure does look a bit blobby…

The conclusion I'm taking from this is that it's just different scales for different gaming styles; combined arms and manoeuvre warfare is best served by 6mm; company level gaming by 15mm; and infantry skirmish by 28mm. Obviously there'll be a lot of overlap, and people trying different stuff, as well.

First off the OP asked for an opinion. Porfirio gave his. It may have been different from yours. Deal with it. If you don't want opinions, don't ask for them, and don't read threads that may contain differing viewpoints.

As for 6mm bashing – been there, seen it, brushed it aside. Same old , same old trolling, ill-informed statements and poor attempts at ridicule. Nothing new and nothing original. I'd reply to one of these threads if there was a really original line of reasoning to debate with. Sadly, not the case here…

Pete, allow me to disagree. I do not like 6mm figures, nor 15mm figures. I just happen to prefer 28mm. I'm involved in a "miniatures" hobby. I don't care if the game is at the brigade level or company level. I don't care about cost or storage. I'm in it for the miniatures.

Because I don't prefer 6mm doesn't mean I'm a Troll, and it doesn't mean I'm ill-informed. The reason you don't hear anything new is because the old complaint is still fine. I just personally don't enjoy 6mm figures. To me they are too small. There is no "line of reasoning" involved, it is a purely personal decision.

Now I'm also not an arbiter of taste. Anyone one who totally disagrees with me is also totally correct. It's our hobby and we all enjoy it differently. That's good. Far be it for me to dictate my tastes onto others.

Indeed it was the statement of fact that they are BLOBS which upset people.
Much like if someone said 28mm were blobs or 15mm were blobs.

Somehow, I doubt anyone would really care.

Ralph

Well I hope your found my irrefutable statements of absolute fact (because they were not specified in writing as being otherwise) useful, Lovejoy.

I think I might state it a little differently from you -- rather than deciding on company/platoon/squad distinctions, I might put it down to the largest model that one needs to use in quantity. If you want to use many very large vehicles/creatures/whatever in your gaming (such as, say, Epic 40k with Titans) then 6mm seems best, the penalty being that you lose the easy ability to recognize the infantry because they are … well, the less said about that the better.

If you are going to have large numbers of individual soldiers on the table but not a very large number of enormous vehicles, 15mm is the way to go. If you are playing a skirmish, and have a decent amount of table space, 28mm is best, although even then 15mm scales out to most tabletops better.

So even if I were playing very large formations of humans against each other, without very large vehicles, I still wouldn't use 6mm as you can't readily identify what the units are. The models are just too small. For me the enjpyment of mini gaming is being able to see it all.

I know that most 6mm gamers do it to get a sense of scope, all the massed men. And of course a phalanx with 300 models in it does look cool, but that's the rare exception because of the extremely long spears which scale the whole size of the model up; you can actually sit six feet away from the model and make out what it is, but even then, it's the spears, not the men.

There, I got out of this thread without calling anyone a troll, without telling them to shut up, without saying that their opinion should be ignored or they should be stifled, and without stating that, because someone said something I don't like, they are having self esteem problems, or issues at home or work. I guess I lose!

I never had problems ID'ing my Infantry … picture … But that's just me !!

Lovejoy, I've heard people say

"28mm if you want to do skirmish with mostly infantry"
"6mm if you want to do large battles"
"15mm are terrible – they are neither one nor the other – without the detail of 28mm nor the super cheapness and epic scope of 6mm"

others say

"15mm is God's own scale – the perfect marriage of 6mm and 28mm allowing you to go skirmish or mass battle with the one set of minis…"

Two totally different points of view…

I personally find even 15mm a bit 'blobby' with outsized heads and weapons – though not to the extent of 6mm which, as has been pointed out, is more about vehicles and aircraft than infantry. Some 6mm infantry ARE pretty shapeless.

The Baccus 6mm are very nice though
baccus6mm.com

Final answer: Get BOTH scales! The cost is pretty low – $10 USD for 100 6mm infantry isn't going to harm your wallet too much…

6mm FUBAR anyone?