"SciFi: 6mm vs 15mm?" Topic

OK, the question of 15mm SF vs 28mm SF has been done to death.

I do 28mm (and bigger) sf for skirmish gaming.
I use 15mm for larger actions, with a number of vehicles involved, but I used to do a lot of 6mm as well.

What are the benefits of 15mm sf against 6mm sf?

Are there more 15mm sf players than 6mm?
And are the 15mm sf players doing big battles, or mainly skirmish games?

I use 6 mm Epic for Epic and FWC, and 15 mm for LaserBurn and 5150.

I like 15mm as its usable for large battles or skirmishes. 6mm is pretty much useless for skirmishes.

15mm you can still tell differences b/t weapons troops are holding. That gets a bit abstract in 6mm.

Overall, that is why I play 15's mostly. You get the best of both worlds between detail and size.

You can use some 28mm stuff for 15mm (like the refineries, Egyptian tombs etc. from Armorcast). Characters also look like characters not a small blob (although many would argue that is true of 28mm and not 15mm).

Excuse me? Baccus 6mm among others have long since put to rest the idea of 6mm figures as 'blobs'.

However, the great advantage of 6mm is the ability to create battles that are true combined arms operation with ships, vehicles and aircraft included; A variety of inexpensive options for armies; You *can* do some skirmish work at the squad level ( HELLFIRE was particularly good for that); And the ranges look more realistic on the table top.

I'm not downgrading 15mm, though I don't play simply because it's so expensive down here, I'm just offering another viewpoint which i think might be better than "Throw all your 6mm crap away" which seems to be the gist of the 15mm fans arguments here. :)

personnally I'm a 6mm fan – storage space and painting time are the drivers.

I play FWC using epic figures, but am expanding my options to include a dalek army (thanks irregular) and a hodge-podge humanish from which ever takes my fancy (alder, GZG & 15mm scorpions (giant scorpions in 6mm)).

I like the fact you are truely doing a battle rather than a skirmish where tactics and thought may succeed rather than dice throwing.

6mm all the way. The scale in FWC & E:A allows for true combined arms and more realistic looking ranges than 15mm.I'll play any scale, but have found 28mm best for skirmish & 6mm for battles (IMHO).

There's more alien races for 15mm. You might of course redefine some 6mm human infantry as aliens, but I too am of the opinion that 6mm figures are not in any way indistinguishable blobs, and the human ones do look like humans specifically. IMHO 6mm gaming, with the miniatures currently available, is best suited for either Epic-style "space fantasy" (dwarves with laserguns, lizard cavalry etc) or hard sci-fi human vs human conflicts. 15mm lets you do more of a space opera kind of setting a la Traveller.

15mm puts greater emphasis on infantry. 6mm tends more toward microtank gaming.

That said, you can do some fun little "microgames" in 6mm. I'm working on a Space Hulk style one. It's going to play on something like a 45x45 cm board and have infantry based as teams of 3-4 per base.

I play both, I do NOT consider them alternatives to one another. In fact, I try to collect 6mm collections to match my 15mm.

15mm is suitable for infantry battles such as skirmishes and special forces missions. What it can't handle are mass-and-maneuver style battles.

So I tend to favor a stargrunt army for the one and a dirtside army for the other. 15mm is so cheap, and 6mm is even cheaper; you should have no trouble with affordability. In fact, considering that you play 28mm, you should be able to buy both and still have a ton of cash left over.

15mm is the replacement for 28s, not so much 6mm figures. Run large and grand battles with 6mm figures, save 15s for skirmish and platoon level stuff, unless you've got a big table. The only serious problem with 6mm sci-fi these days is that there are fewer 6mm terrain manufacturers than their were at one point.

Also, while you can use super-heavies in 15mm, 6mm lets you use crazy stuff like Titans and super-size Bolos in your games. I wouldn't bother doing the gigantic 6mm battles in 15mm, since I generally play by myself and considering the table-size necessary for that sort of thing excessive.

6mm all the way, for the reasons above.

Doug

In 6mm the infantry models are too small. Doesn't matter how well sculpted they are. Yes, they are blobs.

Think 6mm is purely for those who care only about the mega machines.

For me 15mm is the smallest scale at which one can readily pick out who is who on the tabletop. 28mm look like action figures, they have a toyish quality to them, whereas 6mm are dots.

I find that 10mm has been a most liberating choice for me.

@Rhoderic III, "There's more alien races for 15mm". Perhaps there are more figures labled as aliens but with a bit of imagination you can have all the aliens you want in 6mm. I have over 20 6mm alien forces and most are not the man in the rubber suit look you get with so many of the 15 and 28mm aliens.

@porfirio, You can call em blobs but it aint so.

I game larger actions in 6mm and use 25/28 for skirmish games. There has been an upswell of available 15mm of late and if I did not have so many 25/28mm figs I would switch to 15mm for skirmish. You can do larger battles in 15mm so it may be the best of both worlds for you.

There are a lot of great 6mm Sci-fi out there … link … that's all I do. For many of the reasons mentioned above … Yes and 6mm ain't blobs !!! Some have a problem painting 6mm too … I don't – link link link

@Allen57, you can say it ain't so, but it is.

There, that was fun.

Actually blobs is not the right word, flecks or dots is probably better.

My stuff don't look like blobs or dots !!!!! U R full of !!!

Perhaps there are more figures labled as aliens but with a bit of imagination you can have all the aliens you want in 6mm. I have over 20 6mm alien forces and most are not the man in the rubber suit look you get with so many of the 15 and 28mm aliens.

I'm intrigued. Tell me more.

I'm with Legion 4. :)

Blobs are they?

link

Think 6mm is purely for those who care only about the mega machines.

Why do thousands or people play Napoleonics in 6mm then.
eh eh eh

How to upset people in one easy stage..

I only play 6mm in historical periods. I have played modern in 6mm but i just like my games a little more skirmish like. I just cannot see 6mm to well unless its 30 odd fighures all packed on a base. So for me sci-fi 6mm is out. And as I now use my battletech mechs in 15mm games I dont need 6mm battletech any more.

Why do thousands or people play Napoleonics in 6mm then.
eh eh eh

Thousands? Did a poll did we?

Anyway, Napoleonics in 6mm, yes, I've seen the occasional table at shows, and it looks like a board game on terrain. Which is what most 6mm games end up looking like, let's face it, as the bases are what you see the most, not the models.

Not very likely to prove me wrong dear fellows, as what models are too small and what ones are too large … it's an opinion, isn't it?

I don't need to do a poll, I happen to know hundreds myself and I am just one person.
The various 6mm forums and websites and companies would be quiet and out of business unless they had more customers than the few hundred I know at a personal level.

6mm players can see past the bases their models are on.
Next time go and have a proper look, maybe check out the gallery section of the 6mm forum.
You will see the level of detail there.

If you don't like/understand something then that is fine, but just because you don't that does not make it bad.

To be honest I only use 6mm for vehicle heavy games, or larger combined arms.

But that being said I have considered, to the point of putting together some test pieces, 6mm skirmish.

The trick is the individual infantry figures are all mounted on 6mm rare earth magnets. and the game board is made from magnetically attractive material.

The biggest issue was troop differentiation especially in multi-player games.

I like the idea still. just the logistics got to be a bit much. For the record I have played in several long term games with 6mm as the scale on Car Wars maps with the figures being tiles mounted on blocks, and the biggest issue was any bump of the table tended to send the board into disarray. Thus my playing with the magnetic boards. Also 1:1 figure to ground scale even in 6mm boards tend to shrink in the total area once vehicles are the main focus.

I think the best summary of 6mm versus 15mm (or 28mm) is how many tanks you want on each side.

No vehicles, and maybe an infantry platoon? 28mm all the way.

If you only want a few vehicles (max of about two platoons, and it's going to look cramped) and an infantry focus, then play 15mm.

If you want the focus on armor and air, then 6mm is a better choice.

(This thread seems to have disappeared off the main page as I'm writing this. It's been usurped by a thread named "Does Games Workshop really make the best minis?". Annoying, that.)

Regarding 6mm skirmish, there's something to be said for the concept of a "semi-skirmish" kind of playing style. Infantry figures would be multi-based, but only around 3 per base, and the bases would be no larger than they have to be to comfortably accommodate those figures. A faction (warband, gang, patrol, whatever) would consist of maybe 8-16 such bases. While this puts more figures on the table than your typical 28mm skirmish game (depending a bit on your definition of "skirmish"), it still partly retains that feel of small engagements. The Space Hulk style project I mentioned is going to be like that. My first two factions will be human soldiers and bio-menace aliens, but if all goes well I'll expand it with further factions: proud warrior-culture aliens, enlightened aliens, wicked aliens, etc.

Never said it was "bad" I said it was too small.

However, the great advantage of 6mm is the ability to create battles that are true combined arms operation with ships, vehicles and aircraft included;

Yes! I concur with my esteemed colleague, Covert Walrus. I've always considered 28mm to be a scale intended for fire teams in skirmish battles, where one, maybe two, vehicles per side would be the max and you would never see artillery on the table at all (except maybe light mortars). 15mm is for platoon- to company-level engagements, and 6mm is for battalion-sized combined-arms teams.

It always tickles my funny bone to see pics of 40K battles with Basilisk heavy artillery sitting a foot from formations of evil aliens. Go, gun-bunnies, go!

Yes, that's the way I see it … 28mm should be basically for skirmish, probably nothing bigger than Platoon level. And IMO 15mm is better for Company level. At least in 6mm you can actually fight Bn TF level ops with dozens of vehicles and a like number of Infantry units(Based on TO&E or Army Lists)… And I too have to laugh when I see heavy FA set up a foot from the enemy … But yes … size of models is based on ones tastes … for whatever reasons …

=> porfirio rubirosa. Maybe you just need glasses? Everyone seems fine with them. I use thousands in Nap battles and no I do not use the big bases like you mentioned.

link

I use the same basing that you use for 15mm or 28mm.

Yes you have an opinion. Well keep it to yourself. We don't jump on all the 15mm, 20mm or 28mm threads and bag off that scale!

I play 6mm because that's the scale that everyone else in my club is playing, but my preference is actually for 15mm.

It depends upon what you want from the genre, e.g. lots of massed troops and vehicles in combat, or more of a skirmish style game.

6mm Sci-Fi is cheaper, but the vehicles and infantry are a lot smaller too. 6mm is great if you are on a tight budget, or have very limited space to game in. It's also better for more realistic deployments, as well as movement and weapons ranges.

With 15mm scale, you can paint nice camo. jobs on the infantry, and actually see them, and the vehicles are more impressive. Some people play 15mm skirmish games in as little as a 2' x 3' space. The miniatures are very affordable, especially if you just buy just a few squads of infantry (prices run about 50 cents per figure for many ranges), and avoid vehicles, make your own, or just field a few of them. Some people purchase plastic Ro-Co tanks, or other 1/87th scale vehicles or toys, and convert them for Sci-Fi gaming. The West German Leopard II tanks and Marder IFV's are some of the most popular for that.

Lion has summed it up nicely in terms of the types of battles you desire.

You can always take the easy route, and buy both. That's what I've done, and don't regret it a bit.

If you want a good deal on 6mm Sci-Fi Armor, check out the Renegade Legion article posted today. $25 USD for 54 plastic tanks, or $35 USD for 108, if you buy both factions is a great bargain, and they really look nice. 50 cents, or less per tank is a real deal.

As is rapidly becoming the majority view, choice of scale is all about choosing the appropriate figures to fit the type of game you wish to play.

The smaller the scale of action, the larger the casting. The larger the scale of action, the smaller the casting. It's not a case of 'better' or 'worse', it's a case of choosing the right tool to do the job.

As for 6mm bashing – been there, seen it, brushed it aside. Same old , same old trolling, ill-informed statements and poor attempts at ridicule. Nothing new and nothing original. I'd reply to one of these threads if there was a really original line of reasoning to debate with. Sadly, not the case here…

Cheers

Peter

IMO … 6mm Rules ! But as always … Do What Works For You …

I'm not downgrading 15mm, though I don't play simply because it's so expensive down here, I'm just offering another viewpoint which i think might be better than "Throw all your 6mm crap away" which seems to be the gist of the 15mm fans arguments here. :)

I'd get both. GHQ's 6mm guys are good but from 50cm, how do you tell one is a special character (unless it's Epic 40K and heroes are painted bright pink?) 6mm also lacks the choice of infantry types (like feline aliens, for example).

But 6mm is the smallest scale you could do an acceptable "battle" with tanks and all outside of urban environments. And boy it's cheap. And easy to paint! People have pretty much summed it up. Get both!!

And 3mm is even cheaper. We need more 3mm stuff!

There are a lot of sci-fi 6mm infantry types – besides G/W there is DRM, Exodus Wars, GZG, Adler, Baccus etc. … see the list I posted above … And none of my Epic 40K Infantry are painted bright pink … See the links I posted above … GZG has a great 3mm Sci-fi line too, BTW …

=> porfirio rubirosa. Maybe you just need glasses?

A microscope is more like it.

Meanwhile, lovely to see all the accusations that people who think the models are too small and don't think they make a good presentation on the tabletop are "trolls." Considering after all that the original poster asked what the benefits of 15mm over 6mm are.

It always tickles my funny bone to see pics of 40K battles with Basilisk heavy artillery sitting a foot from formations of evil aliens. Go, gun-bunnies, go!

That's generally a sign that the artillery always had something more pressing to shoot at… and that something horrible is about to happen to the targets:

"Gunner, Captain Crunch!"
"Crew, fix bayonets!"

FIRE!

Same pluses as for most periods/genres:

15mm
You can see more detail and pick out individuals from further away
You can base singly and it not be a royal pain in the bum
You can do a more detailed paint job (if that is your thing)

6mm
You can paint them more easily and more quickly
The battlefield will nearly always look better IMHO (for the same level of effort and expenditure) with the figures more in harmony with the terrain
The distances look more 'realistic'
You can get more troops and vehicles on the table without making your battle look too short-ranged and bunched-up.
You can do large skirmishes at something at or approaching a 1:1 ground scale
You can do it much cheaper, quicker and on a smaller table (but doing this gets rid of some of the other advantages)

Regards

I intend to get heavily into 6mm in the next year or two – there are some awesome figure lines out there for all kinds of interesting eras, from modern to ancient.

I agree with Baccus (who makes some amazingly nice figures) that bashing one scale in favor of another is like damning a screw driver for not doing a hammer's job. Sure, there can be some crossover in purpose, but for the most part the size of figure used is (just as Baccus said) a function of the size of the game. There's really nothing to get worked up over.

- Shawn.

But of course it's not bashing a scale, and not being a "troll," to say it's too small for you, that you don't like it because you can't really see the models, and that's why you prefer 15mm. Especially when the OP asked why you might prefer one scale over the other.

If the 6 mil guys are that touchy about their scale that they can't bear to hear people say they don't like it, then they should stay away from questions like this, because some people are bound not to like them, aren't they? I like 15 mil and I know that … GASP … some people don't, but hey ho, the world does not come to an end, the sun still rises in the east, and the waters still flow downhill to the sea.

f the 6 mil guys are that touchy about their scale that they can't bear to hear people say they don't like it, then they should stay away from questions like this, because some people are bound not to like them, aren't they?

Wow. Just . . . wow. Porfirio, are you naturally this way or did you take lessons from Cog Comp? :) Seriously, there is a strong undercurrent in your 'opinion' that any 6mm gamer should give up and accept 15mm or 28mm instead, and that is what disturbs us. Your high-handed attitude is part of what makes these discussions degenerate and I for one would ask that you try and refrain from it for the sake of a pleasant debate.
I do respect your opinion, I just feel uncomfortable with the way you express it.

6mm Rules !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! For all the reasons mentioned here …

I have used both 6mm and 15mm figures. Each scale has great figures to choose from and rules to play with. 15mm are easier for me to paint, especially detail. 6mm however, has the advantage of cost especially to field large forces. Both
have their place. I'm currently doing a Hammer's force (15mm)of Old Crow and GZG infantry. Haven't decided on enemy yet.
Bob

Meh, some of you 6mm folks sound just as self-righteous as Profirio…

But to sidestep that derail:

It's all about scale, the higher up you go, the more detailed things tend to be.

Necromunda and its 28mm, you can name every single model and identify their weapons easily. But vehicles will crowd your table quickly, and ranges will be unrealistic. Also, they hurt the wallet.

15mm is in between, some detail, decent amount of vehicles and don't hurt the wallet too much.

6mm, you do lose some detail (How much and whether it bothers you is in the eye of the beholder), but you can play with large amounts of vehicles and big ones at that.

My advice would be to go to the local gaming store, see the figs available in person, check the prices and the models, and then decide.

As far as popularity, it probably depends on location and who you know, but there was little to none 6mm in my playground, and WarMaHordes was big, and a smattering of 15mm. There was a push to go for FoW 15mm, which could've caused a transition into sci-fi 15mm, (perhaps Gier Krieg), but it was after I left the city.

=> porfirio rubirosa "to say it's too small for you, that you don't like it because you can't really see the models, and that's why you prefer 15mm."

Thats fine to say YOU THINK this. That's your opinion and we can all see that clearly in that statement. And that is okay.

But that is now what you said originally.You said "In 6mm the infantry models are too small. Doesn't matter how well sculpted they are. Yes, they are blobs."

And

"Actually blobs is not the right word, flecks or dots is probably better."

That is not as easy read as just your opinion and those sort of statements are what upset people.

As I said, some people have trouble seeing 6mm while others work with them very well.

Heck, I like and collect 6mm to 54mm figs. I love em all! Anyone who takes shots at a scale with no facts to support their opinion should just be ignored. Usually, they are just looking for attention.

YMMV.

Thanks,

John

"I do respect your opinion, I just feel uncomfortable with the way you express it."

I cant see his opinion, and that's how I like it.
;-)

There are a lot of sci-fi 6mm infantry types – besides G/W there is DRM, Exodus Wars, GZG, Adler, Baccus etc. … see the list I posted above … And none of my Epic 40K Infantry are painted bright pink … evil grin See the links I posted above … GZG has a great 3mm Sci-fi line too, BTW …

I see you have not fallen under the sway of Slaanesh yet…

My first Epic (then Space Marine) force I painted the Ultramarines command guys with bright gold to distinguish them… and I did love them Titans :)

Whirlwind:

You can do large skirmishes at something at or approaching a 1:1 ground scale

THAT I especially like. You can order a "sample pack" from GHQ for 8 bucks and have enough for a 2000 point WH40K game!

Indeed it was the statement of fact that they are BLOBS which upset people.
Much like if someone said 28mm were blobs or 15mm were blobs.

If someone had said they did not like them because they were not big enough for them then I suspect no-one would have been upset.
But to say that all 6mm are blobs as a matter of fact is bound to upset.

Anyway, back to painting my 2mm army…