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"Bavarian et Cologne Guards" Topic


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18th Century

1,530 hits since 29 Sep 2010
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tizizus29 Sep 2010 10:20 p.m. PST

Hello all,

I do paint two units for WSS, who fought at malplaquet, namely Gardes de Bavière and Gardes de Cologne.

Any information on these units (uniform, organisation?)

Thanks

Fred, french player

18th Century Guy Supporting Member of TMP30 Sep 2010 3:49 p.m. PST

You need the CD from Hall for Cologne (Koln)

1-80880 Hall, Robert MILITARY UNIFORMS OF THE ELECTORATE OF COLOGNE

For the Bavarians, you might try the plate –

1-RHBY02 Hall, Robert BLENHEIM 1704 BAVARIA:LEIBREGIMENT OF FOOT 8.5x11 color plate.

All at – onmilitarymatters.com/pages

Look under the 'Marlburian' link and scroll down.

Leadjunky30 Sep 2010 7:38 p.m. PST

I don't want to start a big ruckus here or anything, but I do have an observation/question. I have used this forum for years and received tons of help on uniforms for various periods. My thanks to everyone through the years. That being said, it seems that when I see someone ask about a flag design or a uniform color for the WSS period, they often (not always) get the same answer--You need to get this or that cd, or this plate or that book for a hundred dollars or learn French/Dutch/German like a good fellow. Not knocking any of those, but not very practical for the guy who wants to paint four units.

Now I have been guilty of sounding a bit smart-@$$-ish from time to time, but that is not my intent here. I am just curious. Is it period snobbery to new comers, secret society club stuff, safe guarding a publisher's investment, or something else? I am starting to think the imagi-nations route is the way to go.

abdul666lw01 Oct 2010 6:50 a.m. PST

Certainly replies to similar queries are, on the average, very different and much more helpful for WAS / SYW periods.
Maybe only because of the availability of abundant, free resources on-line (Knötel, Mouillard and other plates, the Kronoscaf project…); or maybe not?
And indeed Imagi-Nations allow you to paint the uniforms you like, for instance when you are disppointed by the historical ones (e.g. 'Blauvarians' in gaudy light blue rather than Bavarians in gloomy medium-dark blue?).

seneffe01 Oct 2010 11:58 a.m. PST

I like the term 'Blauvarians'….

18th Century Guy Supporting Member of TMP01 Oct 2010 1:41 p.m. PST

Leadjunky, no ruckus here. I'm just offering up the information I have available to someone. I recommend a book or CD based on the question. I'm more than willing to help and I assume the person may want more information than I can provide and they may want more information for other uniforms/flags/etc for the same army after their first query. So I recommend the source of all that information and that way they can then research on their own.

For this particular request I felt that there was too much information to pass on easily and it would lead to more questions and maybe frustration on the asker's part because the information they need is getting fed to them in a piecemeal fashion. Easier for all to recommend the source and allow that person to enjoy researching the CD the same way I do.

idontbelieveit01 Oct 2010 1:52 p.m. PST

Leadjunky, I have wondered the exact opposite! Why don't people interested in the WSS buy some books?

Leadjunky01 Oct 2010 3:53 p.m. PST

No please don't misunderstand. I am not referencing any particular post. Just an observation from many posts for some time. Obviously a book or cd which is specific to the period is a suitable suggestion. Not questioning your intentions at all and sorry if it sounded that way.

Maybe it is that there is less specific information freely available online for the WSS.

"Leadjunky, I have wondered the exact opposite! Why don't people interested in the WSS buy some books?"

As to buying books- I have many and even some on the WSS, but understandably they don't cover everything I might have a question about.

Gamers today are spoiled for choices. They are used to the info they will need to play to be included in the few books they will buy to play a specific game. For better or worse that may be why FoW/GW model has been so successful.

It is hard to get newer gamers into a period if they have to earn a masters in uniformology, or another language, or the information is only available piecemeal through buying ten expensive books or cd's containing each nations cuff colors.

I suspect that if this had been a question about a uniform of the Austrian dragoon of 1809 there would have been several links or descriptions quickly provided. My question was simply why not for this period. Is it just that small of a subgroup within the hobby?

I hope that wasn't a rant. It really wasn't meant that way. Just something that I have been wanting to ask for some time. Thanks.

idontbelieveit01 Oct 2010 5:43 p.m. PST

"Gamers today are spoiled for choices. They are used to the info they will need to play to be included in the few books they will buy to play a specific game. For better or worse that may be why FoW/GW model has been so successful."

I think that's exactly right. I play periods and not games. But I know a lot of gamers who play a game with little real interest in the period. Having a ruleset that gives them everything they need to play the game addresses this perfectly.

18th Century Guy Supporting Member of TMP02 Oct 2010 6:33 p.m. PST

Leadjunky, I fully understand your comments and I didn't take it the wrong way. I too have seen some comments where people just tell someone to go buy a book and it ends there. I usually try to help out and provide information but the details for the two Guard units in question are a lot so I thought the CD (or CDs in this case) would help the person out and give them even more information on other units within each nation. If there were an easy way to upload the data & pics I would. I want more people to join in on WSS games as this is my favorite period.

18th Century Guy Supporting Member of TMP02 Oct 2010 6:59 p.m. PST

Let's see if this works (I'm trying to cut-n-paste) – this is for the Cologne Guard.

Uniform
Coat medium blue, lining and cuffs red, waistcoat and breeches white, stockings grey, neckcloth
black, buttons yellow, hatborder yellow, cockade white/blue. [Golberg] (Kühn gives tin buttons.)

For the Bavarians, I have Condray's booklet and it is difficult to understand. One listing he shows has the Leibregiment in the standard light blue, cuffs white, vest light blue, stocking grey, buttons tin, and trousers light blue (from Wagner). The other statement says coat light blue, lacing white, buttons white, tricorn black with white lace, trousers were dark blue kersey almost covered by white gaiters, the stock was dark red, belting brown with the cartridge box black with a brass device. Sword scabbard is brown leather.

I have the CD 'The Army of the "Blue King"' and all it has is pictures but the Leibregiment is shown and there is white lacing on the button holes.

I have painted up the Cologne Guard and you can see a picture of it on my blog which can be found at –

link

Leadjunky03 Oct 2010 8:28 p.m. PST

Very nice and great flags on those too. I hadn't planned on painting these, but they look nice. I may have to dig out some of my WSS that I put aside and paint them. Thanks for the link.

dbf167605 Oct 2010 10:36 a.m. PST

18th, Great job. Where did you get the flags?

18th Century Guy Supporting Member of TMP06 Oct 2010 7:12 a.m. PST

The flags come from 'The Flag Dude' flagdude.com/. I have him oversize them and then put them on his 'cloth' paper. It costs more but I like the effect.

tizizus06 Oct 2010 1:41 p.m. PST

Thank 18th Century Guy

I've started to paint them, but I'll modify it.

Fred, French Player

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