"which war film gets you mad?" Topic

How'd you like to be a peasant in Japan during the samurai era vice a samurai?

Quite, but you have to remember that life sucked for a lot of people then. What do you think it was like being a navvy in Victorian England? Or a prostitute in London? A classic example is the Boer war and the concentration camps in South Africa. Everyone berates the British for the high death rates – forgetting that the death rates for adults were the same in the east end of London and infant death rates were higher.

On an allied note..any medical drams/film scene where the patient goes into asystole ("flat-lines" on ECG) and they get out the defibrillator paddles and resucitate!!!!!!

<<A classic example is the Boer war and the concentration camps in South Africa.>>

Whilst everyone remembers 24,000 civilians died, the fact that 15,000 Xhosa (nominally allies of the British) and 15,000 of the 22,000 British/Imperial military fatalities, died from exactly the same causes, is overlooked.

All right, get out of your anoraks! All the movies mentioned above have their good and bad points. Yeah, yeah, the Turks had M1919A4 machine guns at Aquaba in Lawrence of Arabia. The two worst have still got to be Battle of the Bulge, and Braveheart. Even Braveheart had fairly good english knights! But still it's a Mel Gibson movie. Ever seen Strike Force Z?

I hate "The Thin Red Line" so much that when I saw "The Passion of The Christ", I enjoyed watching Jim Caviezel (as Jesus) being whipped into a bloody pulp.

Kinda ruined the whole point of the movie for me.

To lower the tone to new depths I give you – Jerry Bruckheimer`s "King Arthur", what a complete load of bull excrement!!!

Though I`d actively encourage my wife to dress-up like Kira kneightly all in leather with tatoos and body art :-)

Even Braveheart had fairly good english knights!

I'm not sure there' that many would agree with you. I never read about the sequined trousers poeriod of English History myself. link

Though I`d actively encourage my wife to dress-up like Kira kneightly all in leather with tatoos and body art :-)

I hope for your sake Richard that your good lady isn't as ropey-thin as Keira Knightly. It takes quite a lack of development to fail to fill out a leather strap.

Richard – King Arthur did at least have the Romans not looking like they were from the 1st Century AD…..

I am, however, perhaps grasping at straws a little. it wasn't a good film, though there was a nice idea at the heart of it.

Old bear

Nah, my wife has bits to grasp hold of :-)

Stu

I agree the Romans looked Ok, just the acting and the plot – OMG………….

I gotta go with King Arthur I think….Most films I can point out the stuff they got wrong and live with it, and even enjoy it. But King Arthur, which held so much promise ("the most accurate telling of the legends ever!" they claimed…) and yet fell oh so far short (Apart from the mere geographical faults and innaccuracies over costume and equipment, having one of the most iconic and charismatic heroes of quasihistory be played by a cardboard cutout of a man is inexcusable), was a big dissapointment for me.

Only decent Vietnam movies I have seen was Hamburger Hill and a very low-budget movie called 34 Charlie Mopic.

And I waited 2 and half years before I could bring myself to watch Blackhawk Down….mainly due to the fact I was there…and yeah, the movie was FUBAR trash.

As for 300…if you want to watch the 'historical' version, get a copy of 'The 300 Spartans'. '300' is a superhero movie, and fun to watch.

There's a real laugh-out-loud moment in "The 300 Spartans" where the Immortals attack for the first time. As they approach the Spartans, the camera is tracking their front rank, which gets hit by a volley of javelins (probably broom handles). Each Immortal catches his "javelin", clasps it to his chest, and dies theatrically. All except the guy right in front of the camera, who mistimes his catch and gets the broom handle right on the ends of his fingers and starts hopping about with his hands thrust under his armpits to try and numb the pain.

No movies bother me.I'm a rational, sane adult and can tell the difference between a documentary and a movie made for entertainment.
Some of the movies listed above I think are crap but only because of what is ,IMHO, bad acting,bad storyline,and miscasting of characters.
I must have missed the part of Saving Private Ryan where it said "This is a actual portrayel of small unit tactics in the Normandy campaign and all images in the film are accurate replicas of the equipment used"

Hi

My friend Stu, we haven't argued in a while. I am unsure about the point you made about Marines as murderous thugs.

I assume you are defending the "american revolution where the brits are the bad guy" sarcastic remark I made.

When I see british movies, I usually see the movie showing superior brits, bumpkin americans, sinister germans and other simple stereotypes. It amazes me that british observers want to see an american made movie about the AWI which somehow is so even handed that everyone on both sides is the good guy. Not good story telling.

I have not seen a movie about vietnam made by the vietnamese where the americans are other than the baby killing bad guys. But worse, I HAVE seen a lot of american made movies where the military in general, and soldiers in combat are war crimes waiting to happen. Remember that movie about vietnam where the plot is that a squad rapes and kills a GIRL then covers it up?

So, your point is unmade, stu.

Rocky

Black Hawk Down gets my blood up. The movie is good, but why did the US send those troops in without proper airsupport. The US should have clusterbombed a path for those rangers to get out and then loaded our food back on the boats and gone home.

No movies bother me.I'm a rational, sane adult and can tell the difference between a documentary and a movie made for entertainment.

Winner of the entry for 'how to win friends on TMP' award.

What are you saying about the rest of us irrational juveniles Pete?

The US should have clusterbombed a path for those rangers to get out and then loaded our food back on the boats and gone home.

Yeah, and then they should have nuked France for not agreeing with every word they say. You obviously don't quite get that clusterbombing civilians to kill armed insurgents is what we tell our children that the bad guys do.

The US should have clusterbombed a path for those rangers to get out and then loaded our food back on the boats and gone home.

Welcome to the wonderful world of asymetrical warfare. Counterinsurance involves more than just the military aspects of a campaign.

<<When I see british movies, I usually see the movie showing superior brits, bumpkin americans, sinister germans and other simple stereotypes.>>

OK, but you do realise we British have been making films in colour for some years now?

Old Bear
exactly

Black Hawk Down gets my blood up. The movie is good, but why did the US send those troops in without proper airsupport. The US should have clusterbombed a path for those rangers to get out and then loaded our food back on the boats and gone home.
>>
Amen Brother!

ANYWAY, I'm surprised nobody has mentioned A Midnight Clear!
OMG, me and my friends wanted to walk out 5 mins in! The NY Times gave this movie a 5 star rating! I should've known..

Other than that: The Patriot,of course! Bad acting,bad uniforms,and just plain BAD history!

Gettysburg AND Gods and Generals. Fat,clean reenactors with bad phony beards making speeches every 5 mins doesn't make a good ACE movie!

Thin Red Line- Utter Garbage!

Battle of the Bulge- Bad,but a classic..

Bob C.

95thRegt I'll agree with you about Gods and Generals but I myself liked Gettysburg,partly because a good friend of mine who's a reenactor was in the film,and I can make him out several times.

Captain Gideon

95thReg, this little tid bit should send you over the edge then, you state the Rangers should had air support, did you hear that the Rangers had inproper body armour? There were not enough full front & back kits for all of the Rangers so the Commander on the spot had the Rangers only us the frontal armour. Who knew most of the wounds would be from guys shot in the back or from troops turning away from a grenade or RPG blast?

Platoon, Apocalypse Now; anything depicting our soldiers in a bad light. It's bad enough fighting an enemy while being bad mouthed at home mainly by those looking for votes at the expense of our men and women's lives. If it's realisticly done, fine. There are atrocities and unlawful acts committed by soldiers in war zones. As long as it's not a smear attempt on everyone, fine. Unfortunately a number of filmmakers see ending war as a personal crusade in the hopes the world will see the light through their film. That's probably not going to happen. The relationship of Hollywood and the military especially during WW2 was very good, but criticized later as propaganda. Some of that was pretty good propaganda at a time of national need and fervor for defeat and payback on the enemy. Today I wonder why our objective reporters can't wear a lapel pin but they can join an enemy unit and film our soldiers and allies being shot. Doesn't seem right to me.

"I love how these threads have brits whining about being portrayed as the bad guys in the American Revolution! Who would have guessed? I mean, where is the american made movie about the american revolution with the stance that the whole thing was a mistake? Stupid americans!"

I do not think that is where the British are coming from. The church burning was a plainative smear on British Arms in the that war. It did not happen in history and should not have been included in the movie. The rights of and wrongs of the Americans leaving the empire are still to be debated in history at a future point. Personally, I think the world would have been more stable if America developed inside the British Empire. I think we may well have avoided at least 1 WW and a very long cold war.

Dropping the other Shoe….

One of my sons was in Iraq several years ago and even though in the USAF security forces did some convoy escourt duty. He said Generation Kill convoy scenes were pretty much on the money.

sky

So Canuck Commander are you saying the Anglo-American forces would have won WW1 maybe sooner before the Germans were wrecked or what? No reparations or stripping of the German army to their felt humiliation? So no Hitler. What about the Great Depression? Would the Russians have walked away with a winning British-American alliance scooping up European real estate? Maybe they would have invaded Europe instead of Hitler. They certainly wanted Poland. Interesting theory, but too many players and circumstances to fall in line IMHO. I believe in the era of dictators, someone would have filled the void as the nation states wanted to flex their muscles and hegemony.

<<I do not think that is where the British are coming from. The church burning was a plainative smear on British Arms in the that war.>>

Spot on, CC. We quite understand that an American film about a key moment in American history is going to put the American point of view. What is NOT acceptable, is when a man with a blatantly racist/xenophobic agenda (one that he freely admits, btw) manufactures an atrocity that's totally fictitious and/or anachronistic. It is an open secret in Hollywood that you cast British actors as the "bad guys" in almost any type of film, simply because you can get away with it. It is hard to imagine that Gibson could have got away scot free (in terms of condemnation from American observers) with falsely maligning any other ethnic/national group in this way. And let's not forget that he also arranged for all the people who crucified Jesus to have English accents as well.

Hi

Super, the brits make movies in "colour"…course the americans do it in "color".

And you realize that the phrase "scot free" sort of obviates your point about stereotyping. As I said, I see your "brit accent as bad guy" and trump with "brit accent as Roman" also "brit accent as scientist".

As I said, I have seen a lot of british made movies and I cannot think of the example of a proper british project that illustrates the perfect historical movie without all the usual BS you are attacking Gibson in particular or americans in general with.

I also am amused that before Gibson exposed his drunken rants to the world, we kept being told that while he might be nominally american, in fact he was an aussie. Same guy, different appreciation based on things other than his movies.

I think some movie makers are JERKS and I do not go to their movies. I am unsure why I would take some movie maker I don't like and decide to tar entire societies with him.

Still waiting for the reverse, all these famous movies as drek is easy, tell me the example to admire of the historical movie done right.

Rocky

Rocky:

tell me the example to admire of the historical movie done right.

'Life Of Brian'

Rocky, I'm not so bothered about the British being the bad guys in an AWI movie..

But as noted above, making us out to be a lot worse than we were, and then it being shown to schoolkids as history goes beyond the pale.

Though to be honest some re-evaluation of the AWI is long overdue, especially regarding the motives of at least some of the rebels…

Imagine if SPR had the platoon getting drunk and bayonetting a bunch of French civilians for fun, and then burning the bodies to hide the evidence. I suggest that wouldn't ever get made, and hence nor should the Patriot.

<<Super, the brits make movies in "colour"…course the americans do it in "color".>>

Actually, it was a reference to the fact that the movie stereotype you describe belongs to the 1930s B/W era.

<<And you realize that the phrase "scot free" sort of obviates your point about stereotyping.>>

How?

<<As I said, I see your "brit accent as bad guy" and trump with "brit accent as Roman" also "brit accent as scientist".>>

Well, if we're talking about British films with (I presume) all-British casts, then I guess all scientists and Romans would have British accents (though the analogous comparison of the British and Roman Empires was hardly unique to British films). But then all the street-cleaners, thieves, prostitutes, tax inspectors, dodgy second-hand car dealers etc etc. Well, ok, maybe the odd chimney sweep might have a bit of an odd accent…..

<<As I said, I have seen a lot of british made movies and I cannot think of the example of a proper british project that illustrates the perfect historical movie without all the usual BS you are attacking Gibson in particular or americans in general with.>>

Cannot….or will not? I think most British film buffs would suggest you look more closely and see the left-wing bias in so many films from the 1960s onwards, with all the heroes working class, all the cowards and idiots upper class. It's all but impossible to think of a British-made film that, for example, portrays the modern IRA in a bad light.

How about "Ghandi" – ring any bells? Look at the way Dyer is portrayed – no mention of the fact that the elders of the Hindu community in Amritsar responded to the shooting by making him an honorary member of their religion, and later offered to raise a brigade of volunteers to fight a Pathan uprising on the condition he was brought back from England to command it.

And as I said, I'm not attacking all Americans at all. I'm attacking Hollywood. As for Gibson, the BS you refer to is no invention of mine; it is something he has proudly admitted as part of his "Fenian wannabee" heritage that he inherited from his alcoholic father (in Australia).

<<I am unsure why I would take some movie maker I don't like and decide to tar entire societies with him.>>

Well, then I suggest you don't. Just like I'm not.

And let's not forget that he also arranged for all the people who crucified Jesus to have English accents as well.

Ah, Latin with a heavy English accent, that takes me back to Mr. Hill's class in the late 60's……

tell me the example to admire of the historical movie done right.

Whilst it does have flaws, 'Waterloo' shows a large horse and musket period battle about as good as you are going to get.

I did rather enjoy Peter O'Toole in Masada, threatening the unruly Legionaries with 'Crucifixion and loss of back-pay' in a cut-glass English accent (while of course being Irish all along). Think I cheered on the Romans in that one iirc!

Mel Gibson aside, I've always enjoyed movies where the actors in many epic movies and war movies had British accents. For some reason in my American mind, I associated those accents with good actors and I took the history in many of those movies more seriously. Don't ask me where that comes from. I am of old Anglo Scots Irish stock and my family arrived here centuries ago so it probably has nothing to do with geneaology. One of the best actors I ever met was James Mason, playing General Braddock at the time. Rommel and the German general in Blue Max. Very cool. Very pleasant person to talk to and I still got the pictures from 1983 from my extra experience in George Washington. Saw Peter O'Toole once in Uncle Vanya. I like British actors and actresses. Some I never knew were actually British!

And of the course let's not forget the one and only Mr. Sean Connery. My absolute fave. He's DA MAN!

"I love how these threads have brits whining about being portrayed as the bad guys in the American Revolution! Who would have guessed? I mean, where is the american made movie about the american revolution with the stance that the whole thing was a mistake? Stupid americans!"

I defend our God Given Right to tax all foreigners living abroad.

Anyway, they werent Americans in 1776 – they were sons of Britons! At best Colonials!

Harrrummph!

Now wheres me tablets……

You know, I come to this site to escape the real world and I usually feel better. I get a strong "Sesame Street" vibe of "we may be different, but we are all really the same inside". I feel better, and I feel better about people.

Then a thread like this comes along and it feels like this place is just like the worst parts of the real world.

So for those of you who cannot for just for one minute stay off your agenda laced pettiness, bile, and venom against people you have never even met, I would like to say thanks. Good to know that all your camaraderie is as fake as Santa Claus.

Used the "Stifle" button a whole lot today.

<<Then a thread like this comes along and it feels like this place is just like the worst parts of the real world.>>

So, let me get this straight – according to you, the previous 290+ posts can be equated with starving babies, incurable disease, drought, endless killing and mutilation, mass rape, sadistic torture, high school gun rampages, and general depravity?

Wow, I didn't realise we were that good!!!

"Black Brigade" with Richard Pryor.

I think they meant "Black Squad" as they only had 6 people in their "Brigade".

Well Supercilius, your intentional straw man argument:

So, let me get this straight – according to you, the previous 290+ posts can be equated with starving babies, incurable disease, drought, endless killing and mutilation, mass rape, sadistic torture, high school gun rampages, and general depravity?

…just proves my point about the pettiness.

Your assistance is appreciated.

Hi

138RAF..and that is my point. I will accept that movie makers don't have a clue. (I have done a stint advising a couple, but then I have the same story about politicians!)

I liked Waterloo for the cool parts, and …well I think we are in agreement. As I said, I appreciate when I get SOMETHING, like a thousand "ships".

The "wrong button" argument can be made about EVERY movie.

Did we not have a thread about Bond complaining that Connery was a SCOT? As another aside, "scot free" is an old british term of complaint. In modern times, we sometimes forget the origin of some of our basic terms, like "scot free"…or "Wog". or similar.

Rocky

The topic is for those who came in half asleep is what makes us mad about certain war films. War is anti-social behavior in it's worst form, obviously. Many of us I daresay play at war on a table with toy figures and no one gets killed or maimed or starved or raped. So let's not carry it too far. Also Brits and Yanks picking on each other is just wrong. We both have common enemies that want us all dead. And according to the "news" they are threatening Europe at present. It's hard to visualize unless you're there in person, but it's out there.

I love films with americans and Brits having 'cultural differences'

but 'paratrooper' is my usual antidote.

<<Then a thread like this comes along and it feels like this place is just like the worst parts of the real world.>>

<<Well Supercilius, your intentional straw man argument……<snip>…..just proves my point about the pettiness.

Your assistance is appreciated.>>

I'll let you work out where you went wrong……

Pearl Harbour … Unadulterated, self indulgent crap!!

"people called Romani go into the house ?"

our basic terms, like "scot free"…or "W*g". or similar.

People do know that the W-word is close kin to the N-word ?

Which is why we were somewhat shocked, back in the day, when TSR released the "World Of Greyhawk" series.

Schindler's List

If it even counts.

Ditto to vonLoudon.

SO what movie(s) does (do) every one like????

300 is supposed to be "camp"
Troy -- made me sick to see the Trojans actually riding horses.