"Where are all those AWI movies?" Topic

Why are there so few AWI movies? I mean, Hollywood swamps the world with movies about every possible subject, is located in the US, AWI is the cradle of the US and US citizens are a generally patriotic and historically aware lot.

Why then can I count decent AWI movies on the fingers of one hand? Even counting The Patriot I only know two (Revolution is the other one). Or do I simply miss loads of movies I have never heard of before?

1776, I think there was a movie about John Adams and Jefferson..

But battle films, the only one I can think of is the Patriot

I know and since the bad guys would all heave British accents it should be a big hit. Maybe the guns don't fire fast enough?

Cost of extras has always kept American movie companies from doing wide scale movies. The focus of movies tend to be in the novel view with a focus on one or two characters. AmRev subjedcts have been popualr along the mini-event TV series.

The Fonda 'Drums along the Mohawk' was a classic example of Hollywood approach.

Another is the 'The Devil's Disciple' about the Saratoga Camapign starring Bert lancaster, I think. I was a British soldier in a College play about the story. My mug even got into the annual for that year!

There was that rather clever one about an historian trying to correct the inaccuracies of popular reinactment starring inter alia Alan Alda(the doctor from the television series of MASH ….) things like Tarleton's Boys in red coats etc etc… where in the end everybody went back to popular myth… not a bad film but not exactly battle rich..

If you don't count WW2 or Cowboys & Indians Westerns, there really are not a lot of war films made by Hollywood.

Where is the American Revolution? You could ask the same question about the Seven Years War, the Napoleonic Wars, the ACW and any other war.

What, did we run out of other things to complain about? Goodness knows any historical war film is doomed to be nitpicked to death here.

generally patriotic and historically aware

Patriotic I give you…
historically aware…Hmmm, thin ice there I think.

If you can find a copy, April Morning is a fine boy's coming of age movie, centered around the Battles of Lexington Concord.
A Disney movie, Johnnie Tremaine, is about the Sons of Liberty and the Boston Tea Party.

The Crosing is another, coincidentally by the same author, Howard Fast of Spartacus fame, and it deals with Washington crossing the Delaware to attack Trenton.

Chokidar is thinking about Sweet Liberty, a fun movie. With Michael Caine as Tarleton.

BTW, I once did a Google search on movies featuring Tarleton, and there are at least 5 out there. There are more AWI movies than you would think.

And speaking of Disney, there was a series on Francis Marion, called The Swamp Fox.

There are no GOOD AWI movies.

April morning is probably the best of a bad lot. But it is extremely hard to find.

Sweet Liberty is the Alan Alda movie that was mentioned above.
He's an author wanting to make a movie about the battle of Cowpens. Michael Caine is the snobby Brit actor who is supposed to be "Tarleton" red coat and all!

Very funny movie.

Bob

Oh, dash it all…
This is posted in "Scenarios", and not in the Movies Plus Board.

Let me rescue this and say that April Morning makes me want to game it in 28mm, and that I have already gamed The Crossing.

There. Now it can stay.

Devils Disciple is a film of a play by some hack called G B Shaw…

One of the issues about AWI films from a Hollywood point of view is will it sell outside the US, as if your doing big budget this is a consideration.

I think the first hour or so of REVOLUTION is quite good.

IMO a good AWI movie needs really cool special affects. Maybe a giant scorpion or two? A British mech? Maybe a shirtless G. Washington shouting "This…is…America!" and then kicking B. Arnold into a pit? Yep. That would sell tickets.

Oh and make it 3D!

April Morning has been shown on the MGM channel recently, This.com. Good PBS shows with re-enactments are the best bet right now.

This is about the best you're going to see.

YouTube link

It might be while since I last watched it, but that's a clip from "The Patriot", right?

There is the new comercial with George Washington driving the latest Dodge sports car (with a rather large waving flag attached) at a line of British soldiers.
I thought there was a movie about Benidict Arnold with Kelsey Gramer?

I'll second The Crossing, with Jeff Daniels starring as George Washington. Not bad at all..

The Crossing would be much better if they spent a little more money on the awful uniforms that were in the movie! Especially the Hessian ones! Yikes!

Bob

I remember a few good TV shows that came out at the time of the Bicentennial, the titles of which I can't remember.

Maybe the best was a brief show about Tadeusz Kosciuszko, the Polish engineer, and his role in the Saratoga campaign. The show might have been thirty minutes long and didn't have a big budget, but it was still worth viewing. Some re-enactors were present, and it seems like the uniforms and equipment were halfway decent. One scene involved some American soldiers who were deserting and running away. Kosciuszko shouted after them to come back, and convinced one young soldier to stay. The show ended with one of the battles (I forget whether it was Freeman's Farm or Bemis Heights.) The show might have not have been as great as I remember it. But it was very patriotic, and I was introduced to Tadeusz Kosciuszko for the very first time.

There was also a series called "Decade[s] of Decision", which I missed. But several years ago, I saw a still from this series, of a Continental soldier supporting his wounded and/or sick buddy. If nothing else, the soldiers looked very authentic indeed, down to their miserable, exhausted expressions.

Does anyone remember the Avery Schriber comedy special about the American Revolution? It was pretty silly, but fun. One of the sketches involved a Bob Hope-style entertainment show for the troops at Valley Forge

By the way, does anyone remember the "Bicentennial Minute?" I forget which major network aired this, but every night, at least in 1976, a minute of American Revolutionary history was presented.

I have no idea if any of this stuff can be tracked down or not. But it sure would be fun to see these shows again. after over thirty years. I realize these memories are a little off-topic, since they're not movies. But I thought you all might want to hear about them anyway.

Jeff

It's one of those East Coast/West Coast things the rappers started.

AWI- East Coast.

HOllywood-West Coast

Movie: Revolution (1985):
YouTube link

Most "Americans" can barely recall that the US fought a revolution, let alone who we fought it with. Having worked as a TA while in grad school years ago, I can also tell you that studying history is highly unpopular to the vast majority of students (except for a few of us nerds) in today's society.

Actually, as one who watches a fair number of British (mostly BBC) mini-series of historical events or period fiction, a common remark between my wife and I is how this country (the US) seems to have no film history prior to the 1930s (gangsters) with the exception of the occasional Wild West (cowboys) film thrown in. One would think that with 400 years of history, that there would be something of interest as a costume drama (smile).

Americans will show up in droves to watch some fictional British naval officer (Master & Commander) or fictional story involving Mel Gibson (Patriot) in a film, but no one is interested in making an American related film that is based on actual American history. One could list hundreds of possible historical events that a plot/story could be written for, but it never happens.

Have no idea why, but since Hollywood controls the money and talent, must assume that it is a choice.

Dan

I have to agree with Dan Cyr and I certainly don't want to start a flame war here.
Americans are not history minded and as to patriotic.. well check out whats happened to Vets Day parades over the years or 4th of July for that matter.
As my son said to me when he was in high school(where he excelled in everything but history)"Dad nobody pays you for what you know about George Washington or some dumb battle in some war nobody cares about."

Ouch.

I'm with Dan. Public schools BARELY touch on the subject aside from mentioning the Declaration of Independence,and little else! Heck I had a good friend who actually did NOT know WHO we fought in the War! I wanted to strangle him!
I happen to get my love of history from my late Father,and I thank him for instilling that in me. Because public school in the 70's barely helped..
Its very sad that a good part of my Country doesn't have a clue about how we gained our Independence,yet can tell you who won American Idol last night…

Bob C.

CP Belt;"Robot Chicken" did a segment where George Washington made like Leonidas in "300". And Laurence Olivier made a decent John Burgoyne in "The Devil's Disciple"("History,sir,will lie;as usual")And it was CBS that did the "Bicentennial Minute" segments back at the time.

Don't you know ! Only the Brits and Austrailan's know how to make war films. The Light Horsemen,Breaker Morant,Young Winston,Zulu,Barry Lyndon ? ,Henry V ETC….. AND I'm A American . One of the better movies made as of late is "Master and Commander"

Mark

1776 was actually a musical before they made it into a movie, and its a musical movie…….YIKES!

>April morning is probably the best of a bad lot. But it is >extremely hard to find.

Yep. I still have an old, sparingly used VHS I copied from television back in the 80s.

>Sweet Liberty is the Alan Alda movie that was mentioned >above. He's an author wanting to make a movie about the >battle of Cowpens. Michael Caine is the snobby Brit actor >who is supposed to be "Tarleton" red coat and all!

A hilarious film--Bob Hoskins, too. Ironically The Patriot aka Lethal Musket went and did exactly the sorts of things the director did in Sweet Liberty (just ask Tavington or whatever his name is about his jacket color).

""Robot Chicken" did a segment where George Washington made like Leonidas in "300"."

That's pretty well done, thanks for the heads up:
YouTube link

Tossing in my 2 cents here. I've seen all the movies mentioned above over the years. I'm a history freak anyway. Fortunately, so is my brother when it comes to American miliatry history. Aside from movies, we read everything we can get our hands on. Perhaps it has something to do with us both being ex Vietnam era vets.

At times when we sit a across a table ove coffee, we get engrossed in a passionate discussion over history. And literally no one else in the room would have the slightest interest, let alone any knowledge about what we're talking about.

I recall several years ago I was in a conversation and some young lady piped up…'what to you mean? We have 2 Washingtons?' Meaing DC and Washington state. She was genuine with the remark. I wanted to drink acid.

I remember when "Gettysburg" came to our local theater and the place was packed and during the intermission my buddy and me were discussing every little detail about the first half of the movie and all of a sudden we had a crowd of people around us and they started shooting questions at us. It was quite startling.

The main question everyone wanted to know was "were was Grant". Most of these people thought Grant was at Gettysburg! Having a history degree and having taught a little high school history it was nice to see the interest but I was surprised to see that adults did not know some basic facts about history. I guess I should not have been after watching "Jay walking" on the Tonight Show.

The other thing people tend to get confused with is that the Soviet Union was our ally in WWII against Germany. How can people not know that?

There is a lot of concern about the quality of math and science being taught in our schools but History, Geography and the other social sciences are basically ignored. However I was recently encourage when I started to get some phone calls and emails at work from middle and high school students from all over the country working on history projects for national history day or week. I had never heard of it.

But the questions weren't all softball questions. Questions about the "Acheson-Lilienthal Report" and why it wasn't accepted by the world community, stuff like that. They were looking for some primary sources and I was only too happy to oblige. I am a museum curator at the only National Museum of Nuclear Science and History. So maybe there is some hope.

Crap that was all totally off topic. The best films about the AWI isn't in theaters it's on cable. The Crossing and the older documentary on the AWI "The Revolutionary War" narrated by the late Charles Kuralt. The one the History Channel is not that great. Since they didn't have much of a budget they try to take 10 soldiers and pretend like there are thousands of them.

Lots of closeups no wide shots. A bunch of guys standing around. Not very good. There was one done I think for PBS or the History channel about the war of 1812 focused mainly on the burning of Washington and the Battle of New Orleans.

Never touched on the any of the battles in New York or on the Canadian border or the frontier. Never mentioned Winfield Scott. How can you have a documentary on the War of 1812 and not mention Winfield Scott!

What the AWI period really needs is a "Gods and Generals" type movie that covers the span of a few battles. Just focus it on one campaign (i.e. New York or Saratoga).

You're going to need a lot of reenactors who will work for free, are historically accurate, and provide all their own equipment. This means no overweight redcoats(unfortunately a large part of the reenacting commmunity).

A problem is the sheer diversity of AWI uniforms. Uniforms were constantly changing. Different units wore different things at different times. This problem can be eliminated, but you're going to have to sacrific some historical accuracy.

The thing one things that allowed Gods and Generals to be made was that they had thousands of unpaid reenactors who brought all their own gear. I think its also safe to say that Civil War uniforms were much less diverse and wavering than those of the AWI.

Seven Sixx:

I hope you meant a "Gettysburg" type movie. We don't need another "Gods and Generals" type movie ever again.

I hope you meant a "Gettysburg" type movie. We don't need another "Gods and Generals" type movie ever again.

With respect, this is the big problem. Instead of hammering G&G because of its obvious issues (no debate there) we should be thanking our lucky stars it even got made. Whatever happened to the promised third part of the trilogy? I'd sure like to see it because right now I'm not swimming in historical war movies of any quality. You yanks should think yourselves lucky. We don't even have the opportunity to see the original uncut version of Waterloo over here.

The best we get is three men and a dog portraying various Peninsular battles so Sean Bean can earn a crust murdering the Sharpe character (not that much murdering needs to take place when you are killing cardboard).

Based on comments here I finally watched Revolution on DVD. Since I always watch historical films, I'm not sure how this one snuck past me!

Scores over the Patriot in two respects: 1)authenticity and 2)ambiguity. The look was grimier and probably much closer to 18th century reality, and it took care to show that life in the military was brutal whichever side you happened to fight on.

The Royal Artillery in blue! Love it.

I would deduct points for the almost continual (and unneeded?) voice-overs. Sergeant Major Peasy and other Brit officers wee portrayed as violent brutes/effete snobs, with a pedophile thrown in for good measure. I don't see that these characterizations were much more flattering than Travington/Tarleton.

The Crossing was a good movie, Jeff Daniels played Washington.

hi,

The hessian Television „Hessischer Rundfunk" made in 1976 a 6 hour movie about the Hessian people who ended up in the U.S.A. It is called „Ein Winter der ein Sommer war" and is really the best (and only) movie about the Hessian Troops in America and the battle of Trenton from the Hessian viewpoint.
A must for a collector of a Hessian Army. Unfortunately is the movie made in spoken hessian and very difficult for Germans to understand, which really makes the target group even smaller.

Try yourtupe for parts of the Movie: Der Winter der ein Sommer war.

YouTube link

YouTube link

here the Film Database english version:

imdb.com/title/tt0074073

Greetings from Hessia.

:)

A couple of quick notes:

APRIL MORNING is on Netflix streaming video and the dvd is available via Amazon.com. It has flaws, but has the best Lexington Green scene I have ever seen. There is a historical site that just put a lot of effort into recreating an accurate film, but I think you will have to go to a visitor center to see it.

I have received reports from reenactors with film connections that HBO plans to follow up the wonderful John Adams series with a series on McCullough's other hit book 1776, which would cover the military conflicts that year also.

If anyone hasn't seen the superbly excellent John Adams series produced by HBO a few years ago, they are doing themselves a disservice.

Didn't The Patriot do enough damage for one genre?