"Prussian Army 1815" Topic

A gaming friend is considering late era Prussians.

I have told him that there is little point as they did nothing at all, and their appearance at Waterloo was merely arriving to eat popcorn and clap the British Victory.

Naturally.

Trying to start a flame war?

They saw a lot of action from 1813-14, probably more than the British.

James

Do I detect a hint of sarcasm here? I would say that Prussians 1812-1815 are a good army to build. Lots of variety, initially French allies against the Russians then implacable enemies. And you get Blucher! Thomas, tell your friend to go for it.

Yes, the late prussian army magicaly apeard right out side of the waterloo battle field, did a little fighting, then fanished, not to be seen again until the Franco Prussian war of 1870

You're forgetting the Austro-Prussian War of 1866.

I agree with Artilleryman; that's why I chose them as my first Napoleonic army to paint. They've a lot of variety in uniforms, so it's not like you have to paint hundreds of infantry all the same! And you get to field Landwehr. If you lose, oh well, they're just Landwehr. But if you win with them, you can lord that over your opponent for months!

Apart from turning up late at Waterloo when it was all over bar the shouting, the only thing late era Prussians are known is their rubbish uniforms. The most significant thing about them is their shako covers. Advise your friend to go for the army of 1806 – at least they looked the part.

Ooooh, time to send out…

"turning up late at Waterloo when it was all over bar the shouting"

That explains the 7500 casualties and what Napoleon was busy with when La Haye Sainte fell.

It's what comes of getting history from movies.

My Late Prussian army is AB.

Wow, TMP never ceases to amaze. Grats to Tommiatkins and SJDonovan for the weekly troll honours. <applause><cue music>

I'm fairly sure Tommiatkins and SJDonovan are having a light-hearted dig & there's no need for knotted knickers from the rest of us.

Unless one of them (or both!) is Mad Hoffie….

Good army to game with.

Boring and dull to look at and paint though. Ive always found them the least appealing of all nation in this era to paint.

Prussians?

Do they have a football team?

Late war Prussian are interesting from many standpoints. I must confess my interest in them was sparked by coming across Calpe miniatures of them, the figures were simply stunning and demanded purchasing and painting, so research ensued…

But I was amazed when doing my OU History degree that one of the modules covered the Prussian reform movement, more from the social and political implications, naturally, but even so that was great…

From the wargaming and tactical perspective I think in the late war period, after they had hoisted in the harsh lessons the French taught them I think they are by far the most balanced and interesting force to recreate on the table top, certainly at the 'Brigade'/Division level.

Just a shame they never seemed to muster or deploy a heavy cavalry reserve…

As for their contribution at Waterloo, well I guess its one of those things its just best not to joke about on TMP!

I guess Tommiatkins also ought to warn his friend that the owners of late-era Prussian armies have a reputation for being a bit slow on the uptake (and, if they opt for AB figures, rather pompous with it).

<<Boring and dull to look at and paint though. Ive always found them the least appealing of all nation in this era to paint.>>

I thought the III Korps(?) was quite a colourful bunch – the one with the old Russo-German Legion, 1er Berg Regt, etc etc?

This is my kind of thread, that's why I'm staying away from it.

(Yawn)……Seeing as they are just so utterly awful, and just not worth bothering about at all, in any way, shape, or form, its just a total waste that probably the best, most detailed, most accurate and complete single range of 25mm figures out there is devoted entirely to them.

I recall folks on the late Wargames Directory who appeared to seriously believe what Tommiatkins is espousing.

Spending the cash for an army of AB does lead me to crow about it, not that I've bought another army of them.

For those not knowing….could there really be any. We Danes got our ass kicked in 1864. A movie is actually planned based on that war. A bloody affair for us danes. Loosing thousands of men. Maybe that inspired the prussians to kick the austrians and frog eaters later.

"Spending the cash for an army of AB does lead me to crow about it, not that I've bought another army of them"

Well they are good figures so some crowing may be in order. My own late-war Prussians are old Minifigs. And very nice they are too.

I can understand people who think the prussian uniform is dull but I cant understand some of those same people who think the Russian Uniform is not.

Some of my AB's at the bottom of this page btw

link

The Russian uniform is a pleasing green, the LW Prussians….

I have been known to use them as standins for the French if I'm short of troops.

They are however the third Napoleonic army I painted, oooh, 30 years ago? Can't do Waterloo without them.

vtsaogames – "My Late Prussian army is AB"

… excatly, they were late!

1813-15 Prussians

Line infantry uniform variations.
Fusiliers with black leather.
Landwehr infantry forces with uniform variations.
Landwehr cavalry with MUCH variation of uniform, lots of lancers.

More skirmish capability than any other army.
Good, strong artillery.
Participation in more battles than any except Russians.
A legitimate Guard Corps – although with little participation.
Mixed with Russian forces in many army OBs.
No cavalry reserve, but very strong cavalry elements – this is especially good in wargames where the field is limited and not much mass cavalry action takes place.

What's not to like?

If you want boring, go Austrian. How many white uniforms can you look at before going snow blind?

Just my opinion. They kind of resemble ACW confederates in their rag-tag appearance, but a generally good battle record.

vtsaogames – "My Late Prussian army is AB"

… excatly, they were late!

Whereas Wellington's army didn't show at all at Ligny.

If the Prussians hadn't shown up at 4 PM, the redcoats would have been in a world of trouble. And they did show up at 4 PM, not 8 PM like the movie has it. Plancenoit changed hands 5 times during the battle, with the Prussians taking it three times.

Note Blucher made this march while Grouchy was beating up his rearguard and cutting his line of comunications.

Some people have no respect for those who saved their bacon.

Yeach Late prussians are my favorite army to read about, I love the Rise of the Phoenix aspect, from the ashes was a great army made, twice did it lead to Napoleoin loosing his empire, and yes I know there would be no late prussians with out russian army and british gold, but i still love it,
Blucher is also a very cool general, not a master general, but damn he was unwavering in the face of the french, mabye the only general besides Wellington that didn't fear Napoleon

More Prussians died in battle between 1813 and 1815 than British in the whole Napoleonic period plus Seven Years War as well. Don't know where you got your information?

I suggest reading "The Hussar General" by Roger Parkinson. It's a relatively short book, has lots of action and you will most likely develop a lot of respect for Blucher and the Prussians. I know I did.

just started a prussian army with battle honors how well do they mix with ab

Battle honours are smaller than AB, so I wouldn't put them mixed into the same unit as AB, but would have them in the same army but in their own units, (maybe).

theres just so much love in this room, I can just feel it. Maybe THATS why they call Waterloo "La Belle Alliance!!" :o)

Note that Wellingtons own words immediately after Waterloo started off with what a great job the Prussians had done:

" I should not do justice to my own feelings, or to Marshal Blücher and the Prussian army, if I did not attribute the successful result of this arduous day to the cordial and timely assistance I received from them. The operation of General Bülow upon the enemy's flank was a most decisive one; and, even if I had not found myself in a situation to make the attack which produced the final result, it would have forced the enemy to retire if his attacks should have failed, and would have prevented him from taking advantage of them if they should unfortunately have succeeded. "

Signed Welly

If its good enough for da duke, its certainly good enough for me!

PS Prussians are a good army to do – can use it with French, with Russians, or on its own. Very interesting and varied uniforms in the reservists, including british-style uniforms. Landwehr very easy to piant up so quick to field. Nice blue guns, cuirassier, and some great generals.

Dear All
I am thinking upon what should be my next book writing project. I have a 90% complete manuscript upon the Prussian Cavalry 1808-15. I am wondering whether I should be put on the list of books to be finished.

The previous two employed the Prussian Line, Guard, Reserve and Jager Infantry.

Stephen Summerfield (2009) Prussian Infantry 1808-40: Volume 1 Line and Guard 1808-14
link

Stephen Summerfiled (2009) Prussian Infantry 1808-1840: Volume 2 – Jager, Reserve and New Regiments 1813-40
link

The Prussians are my favorite wargame army due to the great articulation and variety. Although it does not have armoured Cuirassier until 1815. These did not see action in the Waterloo Campaign as they were part of V-VII Corps in Prussia. There are OOBs for this in Volume 2.

Will be sending to the publisher Austrian Seven Years War Army. It is about 300 pages with well over 300 illustrations. It will be good to put this one to bed.

Stephen

Wow that thread title jumped.
From "I couldnt do justice if I didnt do my best to make sure that me and only me is honoured in the English language for the victory.(even if I have to change the name of the darn battle to make sure of it)"

to a random Osprey like advert.
Were the Austrians of the SYW extremely EARLY for Waterloo and want to claim credit for that or something?

Oh sorry, yes just noticed the Prussian Cuirassiers who were extremely LATE never making it at all in fact. Clearly an ironic post of yours.

thanks trailape probably wont use them anyone know of any other good quality minis that mix well with battle honors 15mm naps

Not in the same units, but Minifigs are about the same size as BH. Rank and file are single pose within sets.

Stephen Summerfield wrote:

"I am thinking upon what should be my next book writing project. I have a 90% complete manuscript upon the Prussian Cavalry 1808-15. I am wondering whether I should be put on the list of books to be finished."

A big loud and unequivocal 'yes please'.

Salute
von Peter himself
web.mac.com/nataliendpeter

Having built a Late Prussian Army, I'd say that, the hunt for figures in the right uniforms to start painting, leads to a motley bunch of manufacturers, costly but rewarding. Mine were 1815. Am considering doing the worst of those at a later date, and tackling the Austrian-led Army of the Upper Rhine. Now there is a colourful bunch if my Order of Battle for them is short of artillery, that autonomous artillery reserve a la Leipzig1 1813/1814 proportion.

vtsaogames – "My Late Prussian army is AB"

… excatly, they were late!

But not as late as Grouchy. Which is to say, not *too* late.

I used to have a part-complete Prussian army based on I Corps at Waterloo. What a bore they were. 12th Regiment – black tops, white trousers. 24th Regt – grey tops, grey trousers, grey backpacks, grey coats, grey shakoes, grey muskets, grey faces, grey bases. Landwehr – looked smart if inaccurately uniformed consistently, otherwise a shambles. No guards.

Cavalry. Silesian hussars – brown dolman, brown pelisse. Lovely. Ex-Freikorps cavalry: a mess, a "regiment" was on average about 230 men and they too wore attractive shades of blue, brown and grey. No heavy cavalry or guards.

Artillery: 8-gun batteries of 6-and 12-pounders. Righteous and the main reason I bothered.

The line regiments actually looked quite good but unfortunately there weren't many. It can be a bore painting hundreds of identical line but at least they look like a uniformed army when done.

One man's trash is another man's treasure, I guess.

More Prussians died in battle between 1813 and 1815 than British in the whole Napoleonic period plus Seven Years War as well.

I thought the idea was to kill the other guys soldiers and keep yours alive?! Just as a matter of interest how many Prussian sailors were killed in naval battles during the Napoleonic and SYW?

Yes, Fred.

Wellington said to Bleucher, "For the love of God, come as fast as you can, we'll fight to the last moment, to the last man."

He actually meant he'd fight until the last *Prussian* man.
IMO quite an intelligent attitude.

He actually meant he'd fight until the last *Prussian* man.

Didn't really work for Nelson though did it. Seemed to be a distinct lack of Prussian sailors.

IMO quite an intelligent attitude.

Quite so. British generals (with some notable exceptions) seem to be a bit more mindfull of their soldiers lives than some other nations commanders. That may have been because there were never very many of them in comparison to the large conscript armies on the continent. Intersting that when universal conscription was introduced to the British army in WW1 that concern for losses isn't there.

Stephen. I love your two books on the Prussian infantry, and as a result late Prussians will be my next army, when I get time to do serious painting. I love the variety of reserve unit uniforms, the different jager uniforms, and so on – even if they are clearly not parade standard. Please finish your book on the cavalry. And how about the Landwehr?

Matthew

"Yes, Fred.

Wellington said to Bleucher, "For the love of God, come as fast as you can, we'll fight to the last moment, to the last man."

He actually meant he'd fight until the last *Prussian* man.
IMO quite an intelligent attitude."

Sounds like you've been too close to the German Tourist Board advertising. You know the one I mean….. "Visit Germany, before Germany visits YOU"

Concerning the "rubbish uniforms", weren't a lot them made in Britain.? I'd say Waterloo was an Allied victory. Napoleon split his army to fight them both which may have cost him the war regardless of his initial successes. How about what might have happended on Waterloo Day 2? British alone? Pretty well worn out. Or retreating to Brussels?

Can anyone point me to what the Russo-German Uniforms looked like?

I bought 580+ Calpe's which I am about to start painting.
I've already done 380+ Austrians.

Dear Sir
You can look in both of my books Prussian Infantry Volume 2 or the Brazen Cross. Essentially they were wearing Russian Uniforms.

link

or

link

Stephen