"Help with uniforms for Thorakites and Extraordinarii" Topic

I've searched the forum as best I can and still have some questions in relation to uniforms/attire for these two types of units. So I'm putting it out to the wider community to advise me as to what is more closer to fact than fiction. I'm putting some FoG armies together and want to include some of these troops on either side. FYI Rep. Roman and Later Macedonian. This is in 1/72 scale so figure choice is a bit limited for these figure types but I intend to do my best.
Anyway lets start with the Thorakites
I have viewed many photos of others guys online and it looks like the main approach is that these look Roman..ish. From what I gather these guys would have similar headgear as the Thureophoroi (at least in a lot of cases and I think essentially because they were armoured versions of such) but have mail shirts. A number of sites indicate that the mail shirt would not have the shoulder straps (don't know what these are actual called) and no belt. Some people I see have used figures with a belt… Does this really matter?
I was thinking of using the Caesar Rep Romans most likely with a headswap
link

Would these be appropriate?
Would the helmets have horse hair on top or nothing? I have seen both variants used.

Extraordinarii:
Now I was looking at the figures on this page as inspiration.
link

Very nice indeed but then I came across this on the web
link

Which is more likely? Did Extraordinarii use scale armour? or would either be acceptable.
If scaled armour I could use some of these figures with different shields
link

if not then I was looking at these with a headswap
link

Which would be more appropriate?

I was contemplating whether my Thorakites could use the heads of these last Caesar Hoplites with the crests removed but I have not seen others do this so would that be totally fiction?

Now I know some will say its up to me they're my figures but I'd like to at least have some resemblance of what is more commonly accepted. Any guidance appreciated.

Thanks
Daniel

Thorakites:

Polemarch's 28mm figure is a good representation of this type:

picture

Take what Jeff has to say about thureophoroi on his site:

link

..and add mail. As you say, in the East, mail cuirasses (lorica hamata, to the Romans) may well not have had the shoulder reinforcement typical of Gallic mail shirts adopted by the Italians.

With luck, Jeff will be along to elucidate on thorakitai.

Extraordinarii:

"Very nice indeed but then I came across this on the web"

Nononononononono. Computer games seem to "require" visually distinct imagery for their troop types (in many cases, insisting on distinctions bwteen types that did not occur in history). Totally made-up !

Extraordinarii were simply the best troops picked from the allies that accompanied Republican Roman legions. Not a lot of evidence of full scale cuirasses (Lorica squamata, as the Romans later called it) at this time; bits and pieces reinforcing other armor types: yes, some.

Do we *know* what those allied alae ("wings", equivalent to legions) looked like?

<crickets chirping>

OK, so how would we know what extraordinarii looked like?

<crickets chirping>

Aventine may push the envelope a little bit on combinations of armor types, but they are definitely appealing. Use those as examples if you need to. Just as simple to use a basic Roman, or Etruscan (some of your hoplites could work), or Oscan armored figure, and make sure they have lots of feathers on their helmets because they're "special".

For example, some of these:

link

And yes, they're your figures. With the extraordinarii, if you do something reasonable, nobody can say you're wrong.

Allen

Thanks Allen,

I was hoping someone like yourself would chime in. I have the Italian Allied set from Hat that you linked. I guess I was wanting to make them Extraordinarii just a little more distinct to the standard Italian allies so I may go a little closer to the Aventine examples.

I was a bit dubious of the scale armour but glad I asked :-)

Hopefully Jeff will chime in as you say.

Thanks
Daniel

Headswaps using the Italian Ally heads on some of the hoplites with composite cuirasses might get you pretty close; use a mix of the spare "flatiron" shields frpm tyhe Italian set, some hoplite shields, and long oval Roman scuta?

Allen

For the time period you want to do (Macedonian wars right?) Thorakites would probably be using the chain shirt. I don't know anything in 1/72 scale plastic right now for Thorakites. Triari with Thracian helmets would do in a pinch.

According to Polybius, extraordinarii seemed to be raised from the allied legions. In your time period, they would have undergone a large amount of "Romanization". You can do as Allen suggests and vary the shields and heads or simply go with a mix of Hastati and Princepes and change out the heads only. I don't think you can go wrong either way.

BTW, if you are willing to go metal, check out New Line designs. they have a pretty large range of 20mm figures. Should be in the ball park size wise and you can probably get your Thorakites from there.

John

I'm no expert on 1/72nd figures. Roman figures have too much armor, with the shoulder flaps and their sword position kind of ruins the effect. Newline probably has a figure, but their stuff is thicker, wargame's figure style, and won't look right next to skinnies.

Why not just paint chainmail on your thureophoroi? Certainly at 20mm scale a thick coat of gesso, or other pasty coat with some scoring would do nicely… after all it is the same technique to convert Airfix Robin Hood figures used by us figure challenged folks in 1970:)

Of course all those conversions fell apart over the years (mostly because they were not proteceted by multi-figure bases and the kind of storage packaging we all do nowadays….
JJ

Thanks Guys for the response. I'm not keen to go metal at this stage. I find modifying the plastics a little easier and I get a bit of a kick out of making a drastic change. I may add some green stuff to the Caesar Republican Romans to remove the belt and shoulder reinforcement. The good thing about these figures are they have a dagger that is too long on the LH side which would be the correct side for the Thorakites and will suffice for their sword. Just need to add a strap over the shoulder and remove the existing RH side sword. I may do a couple of headswaps for variety but keep a lot of the existing.

For the extraordinarii I'll use a mix of the Caesar Hoplites with headswaps with plenty of feathers. Should do the trick.
Daniel